Geoff: 0:00

Hello podcats, Geoff Gascoyne here, hope you're well. It's another fine spring morning here in London and today I'm traveling to North London, to Bounds Green, to visit a fantastic young singer, a big, shiny star in the making. Her name is Emma Smith and she's a fantastic vocaliser and improviser and we're going to chat a little bit about her career and about improvising and stuff like that and whatever waffle comes up.

Announcement: 0:49

The Quartet Jazz Standards podcast is brought to you by the Quartet app for iOS, taking your jazz play along to another level.

Geoff: 1:03

How are you?

Emma: 1:04

So good to see you.

Emma: 1:05

Sorry about the early. The early, no, that's okay.

Emma: 1:08

Sorry about the hallway. It's really really I'm going to be late. I promise it's much nicer.

Geoff: 1:13

My guest today is the wonderful Emma Smith.

Emma: 1:15

Hello, hello world.

Geoff: 1:16

Here is my voice.

Emma: 1:17

It is the morning and I had a gig last night, so don't judge the husk.

Geoff: 1:21

Oh, you sound amazing.

Emma: 1:30

I've been looking forward to talking to you for ages.

Geoff: 1:31

Oh, we've got so many things to talk about. This is going to be a 17 hour podcast. Can we start, like, talking about how you learn to improvise and things like that?

Emma: 1:35

Absolutely. Um. So I grew up in a musical family, which is probably very predictable, but it wasn't. It was an unusual musical family. Um, my, my lineage is kind of big band. You know, my father is a well, he's a composer and arranger. My mum's a sax player. She plays actually sax, flute, clarinet. Of course all the doubling instruments couldn't get away with that back in the day.

Geoff: 1:56

Are they still working? (Couldn't just be a sax player? Don't be ridiculous). Are they still working?

Emma: 2:00

Yeah, yeah, they both. They play in the same band. Their band's called Five Star Swing. (Wow), stil working, yeah yeah, they both they play in the same band. Their band's called five star swing, wow and um. Yeah, they met in NYJO and for those of you listening who don't know what that is, it's the National Youth J J azz Orchestra which I believe you did Geoff ?

Geoff: 2:11

You know what I did. One gig with NYJO, only one (I think I knew that yeah, only one I did definitely more than one).

Emma: 2:18

Yeah. So when I went to NYJO at the age of 15 sort of all bright-eyed and bushy-tailed I had to lie to my father and said I was going to a dance class, when in fact I was going to NYJO because I wanted to be just like my mum and dad.

Geoff: 2:32

Oh, that's so sweet I know.

Emma: 2:34

And then, when he found out I was doing NYJO, he said stay away from those trumpet players.

Geoff: 2:40

When did you get into jazz? When did you hear jazz for the first time?

Emma: 2:43

The first time I heard jazz was the Ella Fitzgerald version of Can't Buy Me Love, the Beatles song, and I wanted to be the opposite of my parents who were, you know, nerdy jazz musicians, which you know with full transparency. t took them away from me and my brother as children, because they played in the same band.

Emma: 2:59

So you can imagine they were always out gigging and me and my brother were left, you know, with whichever friend it was that weekend. I mean making them sound very irresponsible. You know, we were always safe. However, we didn't have the most generic childhood and I resented them for that. And so I was like I don't like this jazz music. This is horrible music. It takes my parents away.

Emma: 3:25

So I was into the Beatles and I was into rock music and pop music and the Spice Girls and whatever else anything but the Beatles. And it was my auntie, my dad's sister, who first played me big band music and I thought cool, this is very fun, isn't it? And it was that. It was the Can't Buy Me Love, Ella Fitzgerald, and I was hooked. And then she sneakily, my auntie, played me some of my father's music, which was these eccentric, large ensemble, long form bits, and I remember thinking, oh my god, this is amazing, what is this? And it was when she said it's, this is your dad. He wrote this when he was your age. He was 17 when he wrote it. It was, it was something from a NY joe record. It was the title, was 'Still doing the tricks with the horse, madam'? And I remember thinking, okay, I get it now and I suddenly had this literally like a flick of a switch. Respect and admiration for my parents and I was in. I was hooked.

Geoff: 4:11

What age was t at? undefined?

Emma: 4:11

t 17. Dad said stay away from those trumpet players. He is a trumpet player. I mean that says it all, doesn't it?

Geoff: 4:17

It's so interesting that you say you realise what your parents were doing later on.

Emma: 4:21

Well, because you and your wife, Trudy, are both jazz musicians and it is unusual and it is niche and I think that the world is changing and jazz is becoming a much more popular genre. We're seeing younger and younger people in the audiences. Last night I was at Ronnie's and I'm looking around like, wow, goodness me, this is amazing. It's like a cross section of society, all walks of life, all different types of people, and thank god for that. You know, I think it's an exciting time to be a jazz musician again.

Geoff: 4:50

(Yeah, the turns are tabling) - whendid did did when did when when So when when when did you get into, you start improvising, and how did you approach that?

Emma: 5:03

Oh my goodness, I don't think I've started yet, Geoff (you have come on. Come on), I, I went to, so I was in NYJO, um, and that was more singing with big bands, and that really is my home and that is where I hope to go back to. It's an expensive habit, um, but I love it, and but then I went to the Purcell School of Music for my sixth form years, which is for those of you listening, you don't know about it (that's where all the clever people go).

Geoff: 5:28

I don't expect you to know the special ones the chosen ones, no, the weird ones.

Emma: 5:32

I always describe it to people like Hogwarts for musicians and instead of wands we had flutes and bows and conductor sticks and things like that, batons. So I was the first jazz vocalist to go that they didn't know what to do with me. They just, you know, I auditioned and I actually don't tell anyone this, but I was playing classical double bass (really)?, Geoff face just changed, changed everyone. Classical double bass and piano, sort of accompanying myself, um, and of course, singing. But I said I, you know, I want to be a, an improvising jazz musician here, but my, my instrument is my voice. And they went all right, we'll take you, but you have to design the course. And that became a bit of a theme, because then, two years later, I went to the academy and they hadn't had a singer there for something like 12 years and it was me and my best friend, Kwabena kwabena Kwabs.

Geoff: 6:21

(Those of you who know his music), amazing singer.

Emma: 6:23

Unbelievable, deep, spiritual musician I mean unbelievable and him and I we were Ntogether JO Y together, yeah, and we said to each other right, if we both get into the Academy, we'll go to the Academy, if we both get into Trinity, we'll go Trinity. We never thought we'd get into the Academy because there was not a precedent set for vocalists going there. And then we both got a place and we ended up doing the same thing, kind of designing our course, and it was the tail end of Gerard Prozenza being the Head of Jazz there. It changed over to being Nick Smart and we were sort of stuck in the back of improvising, improvising in repertoire class, singing you know 'It could happen to you' in all keys and in all time signatures and things like that.

Geoff: 7:06

Did you feel a pressure?

Emma: 7:06

(to um, to be like a, an instrumentalist). Yes, right, absolutely. First day there, I cried my eyes out in the bathroom (so they're expecting you to improvise on stuff, right)?

Geoff: 7:12

yeah?

Emma: 7:12

Which is very challenging if you don't have perfect pitch um as a vocalist, (do you)?)

Emma: 7:16

ha No perfect pitch?) N No n I do not have perfect w a. neither does Kwabs. You have to practice so much harder to be because you you can't just press the button. So if you're transcribing language, let's say we're doing that very sort of early, early stages transcription. Let's go to Chet Baker. We love Chet as singers because we can get stuck into his language. It's super melodic, really digestible, and by that I mean I can take a little eight bar phrase. I can learn it, I can really put it into my sort of bloodstream so that I can hear at what point of the two, five, one he's entering, and therefore I can transcribe that and I can sort of copy and paste it into all keys and it's melodic as well, isn't it Super melodic.

Emma: 7:59

However, launching into you know a lot of the kids at Academy and places like that. they've got so much language under their belts already and as a singer you go in there and go. How can I possibly keep up with it? It's, you know, I can't just press a button that knows I'm on the flat 13 of that chord. I have to feel it, I have to become familiar with what a flat 13 feels like and therefore my relationship with improvising is still probably so much more basic than like a second year saxophonist at music college, because everything has to go so deep into my system that I can sort of rely on it and know. You know, my relationship with modes is interesting, like when I teach because I teach at Guildhall, I sort of teach my students to become familiar with the modes, like their characters, and I truly do give them personalities.

Emma: 8:53

So when we're working in this is so nerdy guys, I can't believe you're still listening um, when we work with, like dorian, for example, we've got that beautiful major sixth in there and I I sort of talk about that as this sort of like slightly naughty quirky little edge, (a little bit bright brightness in the middle of a minor scale absolutely, and it's got a little bit of surprise and a little bit of magic to it and you know that we go to lydian and we work with that and that's well. That's just like this airy, fairy kind of.

Geoff: 9:18

(I give them all personalities) so what kind of exercises would you do then? For you know, we do our mode to. the major from light to dark, the George Russell system.

Emma: 9:47

So we start with Lydian and then we go to Ionian, and then we work all the way down until we're in Locrian, the Gareth Lockrane. Stay tuned for a Gareth.

Geoff: 9:56

Locrian episode I'm doing him next week, Gareth Lockrane.

Emma: 10:02

Please tell him. I said that he lives in South.

Geoff: 10:03

London, near me actually.

Emma: 10:08

That would be Gareth Locrian. Yeah, yeah, please tell him. I said he lives in south London, near me actually, so he's. That'll be much easier for you rather than shopping up here to north London. It's fine, it's all good. So that's what I do. I do the light to dark George Russell system and I get my, my vocal users to you know. Basically, you flatten a note each, each time as you go through the modes and become familiar with it, until we're really really familiar, familiar. We number them and we go from one to eight and then back down, and then we'll go darker and darker and darker. And what I ask them then to do, once they really have an established relationship with them, is to go up on Locrian, down on Lydian, up on Dorian, down on Ionian, and we just flip, flip, flip, flip, flip, and it's something that you can do when you're on the Tube and as long as it's noisier on the Victoria Line.

Emma: 10:45

(I'm not sure I could do that). I'm sure you can, but that's what I want them to have and I want myself to have a really, really established relationship with these sounds. Yeah, and modes of the major it's not the most advanced thing in the world. I'm sure people are rolling their eyes and thinking, well, let's go to the melodic minor and do it. Well, yeah, that's next. But it's not so much about the mode, it's about trusting yourself to be able to hit a flat six over one without any slash chords underneath you to help color the mode, so that you are in the driver's seat. Um, and that's where I start. Actually, That's that's. ode Mode to the major is really where I start with the whole shebang.

Geoff: 11:30

So let's talk a little bit about your career and where I know you've had some good news this week, haven't you? I think I saw somewhere that you've signed a deal or something, a record deal.

Emma: 11:39

Yeah, I've signed a record deal, guys, (Wow how exciting). A jazz musician, musician stop the press. A jazz musician signs a record deal.

Geoff: 11:46

So, but you've been I mean, you've been working really hard for years, haven't you? (Thank you, Geoff). I was listening to your Meshuga Baby album on the way up here and I just loved it, so there's so many things I want to ask you about. Can we just talk about that album first? (Absolutely).

Emma: 12:06

(And the writing you you compose on there right) where we can. So I I collaborate long term with Jamie Safir, he's a fabulous piano player, spans a lot of genres, and the genre that him and I have kind of established over the 10 plus years we've worked together is, it's just the most joyful, uplifting, smile, inducing, swinging, camp, colourful, characterful, jazz.

Geoff: 12:26

There is a little element of camp. I noticed (little, come on, it's huge, it's vastly camp). Yeah.

Emma: 12:33

And we love to do that. You know I feel like working with the same band for a long time. You know we've really got a sound together now and that you know with the new record that's coming out in July we just announced it, as mentioned, it's called Bitter Orange and it's got lots of that same kind of feel, but it's it goes into a little bit of a more, authentically, uh vulnerable kind of space as well, like we've got some uh, reworkings of standards like Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered, but in a way you would never have heard in the most kind of exposed, dark and heartbreaking, (um, okay) reworking of that lyric.

Geoff: 13:10

What's your composing process on on this album?

Emma: 13:13

(for example), on this album it's so, Jamie and I will sit at the piano and we finish, finish each other's musical sentences anyway, and he'll i'll 'll say, uh, for example, with there's a tune on there called 'sit sit on my knee and tell me that love' love.

Geoff: 13:25

That was going to mention that one. Yeah, yeah, it's a ridiculous composition.

Emma: 13:28

Yeah, I, I said to him I am obsessed with west coast blues, Nancy Wilson, yeah, let's do something in three. that's really vibey and splangly and swingy. And he's like, okay. I said let's choose a different tonality though. So we went into whatever key it is and doing our thing. And then I'm like coming up with a little idea. And then he's like, okay, and then what about we go here? And then what about we go to a completely unusual key center for the bridge?

Geoff: 13:52

(I'm like, yeah, and we just literally, it falls out of us bit by bit yeah and then we go into the lyric and the storyline and yeah), so you write, you write music first, before you write lyrics. (Always right, always Right.

Emma: 14:03

Always and actually sometimes and this is between us and every listener sometimes I really can't be bothered with the lyric. That's the problem when you've come from a muso and an instrumentalist perspective as a singer and this has been a real big part of my journey is that sometimes, sometimes the lyric and the story gets abandoned. And Jamie's great for me in that sense. He really pushes me. No, we're going to make sure this lyric is perfect. This story is comprehensive. The character is strong.

Geoff: 14:34

Do you find that doing that way around, that sometimes it feels more like a crossword puzzle.

Emma: 14:42

(You're trying to fit lyrics into it). Yes, 100%, and the occasional extra syllable has to get sort of thrown in to have it make sense.

Geoff: 14:49

I've learnt a lot since the lockdown. Actually, I started an online songwriting club, (I remember), which is still going. We're coming up to 100th week this year, so we've tried so many things. We try and test ourselves each week, so it's brilliant. I'm really interested in the songwriting process. So what's happened after Meshuga Baby? So where are we going now? You have a new record coming out new record?

Emma: 15:21

yeah, with this American label, with the new label, yeah, yeah, wow, I'm super excited (how did that come about, then)?

Geoff: 15:27

How did you get involved in nAmerican an American American record?

Emma: 15:29

Honestly, through social media, and that's the power of, of socials. Um, in lockdown, I started being really serious about my social media because it was the only sort of tangible thing that I could control my output on.

Emma: 15:40

You know, we weren't gigging, uh, we weren't touring, and so social media became my outlet and I take it really seriously and it's very un-British to sort of put yourself out there in the way that I do, um, but I don't care truly, I really don't care. I care more about being visible in the world and having a fabulous career.

Geoff: 15:59

It's really working, isn't it?

Emma: 16:00

it's really worked, yeah thank you, yeah, um, yeah. So. So La Reserve is the record label that I've just signed with and I'm the first British signing, so that's really exciting. They they have acts like Stella Cole, who I know you know um Katie Jordan, amazing improvising vocalist from Canada (and how)?

Geoff: 16:19

how hands-on are they? Have they been? Are they? Are they helping you with you know, or they're just letting you do (all the record)?

Emma: 16:25

label stuff that I wanted them to help me with and all the, all the creative stuff they're letting me do, which is fabulous. Yeah, they're musicians as well. Um, yeah, they've been amazing. And you know that it's perfect timing, because I I got my 0-1 visa and I'm yeah, I'm gonna be sort of half relocating to the States from june.

Geoff: 16:44

You have to be there, don't you?

Emma: 16:45

Exactly, I need to physically be there, and now I'm actually allowed to do shows there for the first time in my life.

Geoff: 16:50

Wow, I mean, I remember that from when I used to play with Jamie Cullum and we were there, we were in America when he was trying to break America.

Emma: 16:58

Wow.

Geoff: 16:58

I think it was 2003. We were there for something ridiculous like 30 weeks or something stupid like that, just in buses, on planes and just doing all the radio stations. (Really) Doing all the independent. You know there's a huge network of independent radios and independent record stores and all that stuff. That because America's like 10 different countries, isn't it? It's all over the place. You just have to work it.

Emma: 17:24

It's so overwhelming, my God. I mean I this label. They're fabulous and they really focus on digital, which is great on streaming, and they really care about socials and that's why it's a perfect sort of match for me at this stage in my career and I'm still very independent in terms of my radio and press and all that stuff, and I'm looking at America like oh, my God where do.

Emma: 17:48

I start.

Geoff: 17:48

So how are they going to finance? Because obviously you're going to be going to America where people don't really know you that well, (no, they don't).

Emma: 17:54

I mean only through socials. It's me that finances everything. It's not the way it was with labels. In that sense, and it's good in a way, because it means the artist retains a lot of the income, and if a label was spending $100,000 on me, I would have to pay it back one day.

Emma: 18:09

I mean I would be recouping it. So anything I made from shows because all these deals are 360 now would sort of go into recouping whatever they put into like a radio tour. So I'd rather be at the helm at this stage. You know, it's a lot, though. It's a lot of, it's a huge undertaking and a lot of people don't do it. But I'm really, really committed to it and I really yeah, (I mean I'm sure you'll get there).

Geoff: 18:33

I mean you've come so far, (Thank you), OK, so we should we talk about? Talk about the apps now. So we're here. The reason I'm making these podcasts is to promote Quartet Volume Th3ree and Four, which I know that you've used. 1 and 2 2 before .

Emma: 18:53

Oh yes, I have Quartet, volume three and four, which I know that you've used, Quartet one and two before.

Geoff: 18:55

(Oh yes, I have) okay, so what's your experience? What's your experience?

Emma: 18:57

(of one and two, then) the, the single handedly the greatest tool online for improvising jazz musicians. Um, who? I mean? It's, it's. I can't believe that you are the first person to do this since iReal, because we're using these terrible midi backing tracks on ireal. And Quartet 1 and 2 has been transformative for me, personally, for my social output and for my teaching and for my shedding, (because you were kind enough to make a lot of videos, weren't you)? No, I was not kind enough. You were kind enough to allow me to do that.

Geoff: 19:26

No, I mean it's a two-way thing, isn't it?

Emma: 19:28

(I mean it's fantastic), It's been huge for me because it's allowed me to use incredible backing tracks to accompany me as I make videos and put it out in the world, and that has been really, really helpful in terms of growing my platform (um, great).

Emma: 19:46

And the number one thing is that they're musicians who are incredible and who are unbelievably my friends. But you know, it's been a lot of people comment on that, you know, and a lot of other singers as well, so I really hope that other people are using it too. You know, like Stella, for example, Stella Cole, who has millions and millions of of followers. She was like "where did you find these backing tracks? She's like traipsing through YouTube trying to find something that sounds remotely decent, (okay), and meanwhile I'm just there with this entire catalog at my fingertips.

Geoff: 20:18

um, (so yeah, we want to get the word out) So you're gonna love Quartet volume three and four because, partly at your request and partly my wife Trudy's request, I've I've placed a lot of the standards in three and four in girl keys, (yes), so we've got some incredible new things (this is the thing about volume one and two, so let me be specific yeah when I go through volume one and two, I have to be very mindful of the repertoire I choose because of the keys they're in).

Emma: 20:44

Yes, so the female vocal anatomy. This is nerdy. It is about a fourth or a fifth, as you know, away from the real book key, and so therefore, choosing the Jobim tunes which are in the female vocal key was great. Choosing tunes like Black. Coffee and certain tunes that I could get away with transposing by. With Quartet one and two it sounds. It kind of sounds all right if I transpose it by a fourth, but I was trying to get like a third maximum away from the key. So that the symbols don't sound too weird.

Geoff: 21:17

Yeah, well, I'm aware of that (and that's why this is going to be huge for me). So, looking through the list, yeah, this is the. I mean, this was my dilemma when I was recording them. Do I do them in the standard real book key? And, as you say, a lot of them are fourth or fifth out, aren't they away from the keys? But? But, now we're in three and four, we've got tunes. Um, I mean, let me tell you how I, um, I plan this. So, firstly, firstly, I went through, made a Spotify playlist and all my references this time were Ella and Sarah, all the great versions. So I think you're going to be really happy with this.

Geoff: 21:57

(I'm going to be so happy), So there's another, a further 200, a 100 in each. So I mean we're planning five and six, soon. (Wow), so there's so many great tunes. (I sent you my rep, Geoff, didn't I? And it was like so you've obviously been learning standards).

Emma: 22:11

This is my whole entire world. You, my, my rep, Geoff, didn't I? And it was like so you've obviously been learning standards. This is my whole entire world what was on what was your on your list?

Emma: 22:15

I mean, there's like 250 songs on my, yeah, on my rep. I think I did. I did most of them. I think I love that. Yeah, so I mean we've done a lot already in one and two. Yeah, so if anyone's listening and is interested in seeing what I did with the apps, if you go on my socials um, it's at emmasmith music across most of the platforms you will find these videos. ou know where I sometimes, depending on tempo, do one and two choruses. It gives me freedom to kind of play with the melody. It's just like having a band, a killing, very expensive band, at your fingertips.

Geoff: 22:51

You're so expensive, yeah, that you can. Just you say expensive, yes, yeah.

Emma: 22:54

That you can just like jam with until you feel more comfortable on this rep, and then you go out into the world and actually play with musicians in real life.

Geoff: 23:01

Yeah, excellent, you're going to pick a tune for us. You're going to.

Emma: 23:05

Shall I tell you what I do with my students? (Yeah), I get them. So let's talk about vocal improvisation. There is a lot of fear around scatting. How do I do it? What are my words? It's like a whole other literal language and I'm not talking about jazz language. So I try and take the fear out of it, because I really, really understand that deer in the headlights panic moment, and one of the exercises that I ask my singers to do is to take some words, some prose, from anything. So let me just move around my flat for a second and find some words. Oh, in fact, here we go. Here is a, here is a manual as to how to set up. What is this thing?

Emma: 23:53

um, (I love this) it is a oh, it's my, it's my oversized television.

Emma: 24:00

Um stand what do you call it like a?

Emma: 24:02

like a yeah (the wall bracket), the wall bracket. So this is what I've got here, (okay), and I'm going to use this to improvise with.

Geoff: 24:10

Fabulous, oh, that's so good. Now obviously you need to know the chords and the outline of the tune, (sometimes) you do. You really do.

Emma: 24:23

So let's do something I know relatively well. Let's do No Moon At All.

Geoff: 24:27

Is it on five or six? This is on Quartet Volume Four. Oh sorry, five or?

Emma: 24:31

six, three or four, five or six isn't on it, I'm skipping it four, oh sorry, five or six, three or four.

Geoff: 24:37

Yeah, we're not there. Yeah, so for volume four, by the time this airs, we'll be, we'll be out because, as we as we speak, it just went to Apple. So it's been approved. Exciting, so it's always.

Emma: 24:45

(It's like having a baby Oh I know it's like when you make a record, you're like bye fly my child, (be free).

Geoff: 24:51

(Yes, exactly Yeah, so we have, let me just double check here. I think it's two choruses.

Emma: 24:58

(Usually what I will do is) let's have a look at the intro. See, I'm looking over Geoff's shoulder to see.

Geoff: 25:03

Yeah, so you can see the chords. So it looks like it's the last eight.

Emma: 25:08

Okay.

Geoff: 25:09

As an introduction, perfect. Then there'll be A, a, b, a, and then a second chorus, which will be the bass, goes into four and then it ends, and then it ends. All right, okay, that's all you need to know. (I've not heard this yet, guys). All you need to know, okay.

Emma: 25:22

Shall we so? When it comes to this, I would, be like some people, will be very particular about the changes. I know this tune as A minor chromatic descending bass line on the A's and then round the houses from the dominant on the tonic, in the bridge and that's all I care about.

Geoff: 25:39

(Just a little outline, a skeleton of changes). Now would you say a bit of a nerdy question. Would you say improvising on a minor chord would be easier than a major chord? Silly question, really, (No, same).

Emma: 25:52

I mean, we've got both in here. We've got A minor, then we've got A dominant in the bridge. So let's see, you can make your own mind up after I've had a blow on this.

Geoff: 25:58

Okay.

Emma: 26:01

So I am going to use this manual. (Okay), let me just see. I need to find something with a nice big bit of text.

Emma: 26:07

(I love this. This is such a great idea For heavier items such as TVs. Right, this is going to be so funny. Standard wall plug like I need. (I mean, feel free to scat, you know to do), I will do, but listen if we can't listen.

Emma: 26:22

I'm a singer, I've got language, I've got. I've got english language whereas lots of people don't so okay we've got a warranty. Yeah, we've got instructions and we've got a warranty. That's what we're going to do, guys. All right, let's do it. Are you ready? Ready, I'm ready. Here we go. The wall mounting guide for my 65 inch Sharp television is about to get sung over No Moon At All.

Emma: 26:50

Important when drilling into walls always check that there are no hidden wires or pipes. Ensure that there are screws and wall plugs being used That they are suitable for supporting the unit to be installed. If you aren't sure, it is recommended that you contact a suitable qualified tradesperson. Tips, ensure that you use a recommended drill bit to match the wall plug the hole size. Take extra care when drilling high walls, ceilings and ceramic tiles. Ensure the wall plug is fitted below the ceramic tiles. Ensure the wall clock is a fitted below.

Emma: 27:53

Do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da.

Geoff: 29:07

Yeah, (love that). Oh, fabulous. Oh, that's so good. I heard that you were kind of reacting to the piano.

Emma: 29:16

Yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%. I'm listening to Graham like, okay, what did he give me at the end there?

Geoff: 29:20

(He gave me some little note and then I was like, oh), There was one moment where you got to the end of the section and then you paused and he went, go, go, go, right in the right. It's like he's listening. I know it's just brilliant, isn't it I?

Emma: 29:32

I know I, I use a lot of what the musicians are doing when I'm doing my videos. I mean, it would never, never be as crusty and rough as that. Normally (that was amazing).

Geoff: 29:41

That was so great. Yeah, (thank you), I love that.

Emma: 29:44

(Improvising with the with the text fabulous), I mean it just takes you out of your comfort zone and makes you truly have to improvise. You know so you're responding to the changes, but you're also engaged in a structure which is these words (yeah, yeah, yeah). Which I think really helps singers to access creativity and improvisation, because you're not just going okay, scat. You know, sometimes it can be like um, you know, they don't know what sounds to use. I mean, if anyone is listening and is interested, just transcribe.

Geoff: 30:14

(Start with Ella and Mel) So, for example, um, I've heard you do some, um, some Freddie Hubbard and some different solos, haven't you? You've?

Emma: 30:23

(learned those). Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I love it, it's my big passion.

Geoff: 30:26

Do you um? Do you write stuff down or just learn it all by ear?

Emma: 30:29

I used to, and now I find that as long as I'm certain transferable lines or whatever, or moments, as long as I'm checking out the changes, checking out at what like how it looks over the changes, you know, I'll basically play it on the keyboard and be like, oh okay, that's what he's doing over that, or that's what she's doing over that and then it's just transferable for me, cause I know, like I'm very, very for me because I know like I'm very, very familiar with Dexter Gordon.

Emma: 30:59

I use a lot of his sound and his kind of language yeah, a lot of his language in my blowing um and a lot of Chet. And, yes, some Freddie, I love Woody Shaw. My new obsession is Kenny Dorham. Right, absolutely obsessed with Kenny Dorham. I find that trumpets really helpful for singers because it's much harder to be virtuosic on it as opposed to saxophone where, you can, excuse me, everyone wiggle your fingers and play lots of notes, (as Martin Hathaway says, the musical typewriter).

Emma: 31:23

Exactly Same with keyboard. Although I transcribed some Oscar Peterson and I love Grant Green I find him quite melodic and easy to transfer onto the voice.

Emma: 31:30

(When do you find time to do this?) I don't anymore. Now. I'm touring a lot, you know, this summer I'm in Europe a lot and at the minute I'm transcribing some Nigel Hitchcock on an arrangement of yours, Geoff. (Oh yeah?), yeah, I have a bone to pick with you, by the way. The arrangement you did for Claire Martin on Something's Coming has been the bane of my life for about a year, (in which one, what way? Okay, so I'm doing a but Leonard Bernstein show with the fabulous pianist, um Rob Baron. I'm actually going tonight to play with him at Peggy s Skylight, and one of the tunes we do is probably the hardest thing I've learned.

Geoff: 32:10

(Arrangement wise, is arranged by you) oh, you know what, I gave him a copy of that. I remember I gave him the copy of that.

Emma: 32:15

(I remember I gave him the copy, he was interested this was a few months ago) Yes, and we always tip our hats to you, and acknowledge the arranger, of course

Geoff: 32:22

Why is it hard?

Emma: 32:23

(I don't even remember how it goes) It's so challenging because there's, like it goes into a bunch of different time signatures, there's a bunch of, like extra bars that I have to count and I have to remember the lyrics and I'm I mean, it's crazy If you guys haven't heard this. Check it out, because not only is it an amazing arrangement, it's called Something's Coming. It's on Clare Martin's record.

Geoff: 32:41

It's the opening track, isn't it?

Emma: 32:43

It has the most amazing Nigel Hitchcock solo, which I'm transcribing at the minute (Wow), yeah, nigel Hitchcock is probably our most virtuosic sax player that has ever come out of our city.

Geoff: 32:56

Ever Amazing, prodigious talent he is, isn't he (Totally)?

Emma: 32:59

(So you're playing that arrangement in the show, are you?) Yeah, so it's very, very challenging, but yeah, with my transcription. You know, in lockdown was when I really got into doing these solos and I would take on things that were sort of not singable. That was my thing.

Geoff: 33:14

(I wanted to sing things that were unsingable, like Freddie Hubbard on Hub ones), But you can sing the whole range of the trumpet, can you?

Emma: 33:21

I can. Sometimes I have to octave swap and I find a way to put it on the voice, which has really helped me to get into different areas of the voice and to find how I would sing it, what kind of tone I need to. Sometimes I need to make it more nasal so that I can get the sound. I love to transcribe this amazing trumpet player called Till Brunner.

Geoff: 33:41

(German guy). Oh, he's a very lyrical great singer too right, (unbelievable amazing amazing improviser). I love his albums. His albums are so I mean a little smooth in places, but just tasteful.

Emma: 33:50

He is unreal.

Geoff: 33:52

He's the new Chet Baker, isn't he?

Emma: 33:53

A hundred percent, (yeah), but like wow, I mean I won't, I won't, I won't cast Chet. I mean Till for me is my favourite living trumpet player, (amazing).

Geoff: 34:02

For sure, yeah, wow, that's so good. And then Lockdown.

Geoff: 34:08

You also did. You did something for me, didn't?

Geoff: 34:11

you, you, you sung on three parts, didn't you? You remember you were singing with yourself.

Emma: 34:16

Yeah, singing, with myself doing like a Papini Sisters. Well, Andrew Sisters, Puppini Sisters, which is one of the groups I sing with. And that was fab for me because when I joined the Puppini Sisters, they asked me do you sing soprano? And I was like yes, even though yes, I do, Even though no though no, I'm an alto. So when you asked me to do that, I was like, oh good, I can cover all the parts (yeah, yeah, because that Andrew sister stuff is very pure and high) totally, yeah, totally yeah yeah, (I know you did an amazing job on that).

Emma: 34:41

Thank you (fantastic).

Geoff: 34:49

I've just got some silly questions for you (oh, I love that, let's go yeah) yeah, yes. So firstly, I mean this can lead to other conversations but have you got a favorite album? I know this is this is difficult, silly questions, but do you have a favorite album?

Emma: 35:01

It's not silly and yes, I do it's. It's very obvious to me. (Yea ?, Swin b . Alley, Mel Tormet, , Marty Paich, (love that) done, Desert Island Disc.

Geoff: 35:09

You know that was when I did the album with what was his ? , m Cullum, Jamie um, Cullum our our we first album Pointless did Pointless pointless Nostalgic nostalgic. That was our favourite album.

Emma: 35:17

No way, (so I was listening to that), so he knows that record does he?

Geoff: 35:20

We were obsessed by that record.

Emma: 35:22

Wow.

Geoff: 35:22

And I did some four or five horn arrangements using that kind of as the benchmark. Yeah, if you go back and listen to Pointless .

Emma: 35:29

Nostalgic. I know Pointless Nostalgic very well. There's like that was one of my biggest influences as a, as a young singer. I mean, I was obsessed with Jamie. I still love Jamie. I think he's amazing.

Emma: 35:39

Pointless Nostalgic, wow and he's got that, that intro, which is Joe Williams (and we did too close for comfort).

Geoff: 35:47

(Yeah), on that P P Pundefined o o Nostalgic ah, that was influenced by.

Emma: 35:50

Yeah, totally, totally.

Geoff: 35:53

The Stabs Ensemble, small big band, basically.

Emma: 35:56

Be wise, be smart, behave my heart Fabulous yeah.

Geoff: 36:02

So, yeah, favourite album done. Great, that's a great choice. Do you have a favourite musician, alive or dead, that you'd like to play with?

Emma: 36:10

I mean, for me, my dream thing would have been doing a record with Count Basie Orchestra, which could still happen because they are still going. (Yeah), this is a bit of an exclusive, but my favourite drummer who is alive and not who is dead, but my favourite drummer full stop is Geoff Hamilton. Yeah, as in like alive or dead, is Geoff Hamilton, and I am very, very delighted that I just did a big band album with him. Wow).

Emma: 36:32

Yeah.

Emma: 36:33

So I got him over t a Land and Land and (is recorded a record together is ? for the new label? No, this is. This is future it. It's an calamal, lineup Hamilton arrangements by calamao Geoff hamilton on drums, so watch this space. That's amazing. Yeah, wow incredible.

Geoff: 36:49

Well, You've ticked that you've box, and in that case, haven't you? What was the last concert you attended? Attended, yeah,(Attended),? to see. Just want, just want to get into how eclectic your musical tastes might be.

Emma: 36:59

Oh, my goodness. I can't say it's so embarrassing. (No, it's fine). Okay. The last jazz concert I attended was an amazing American singer called Michael Mayo oh yeah. He is a wizard.(Hold Hold the mayo) mayo. He's unreal. And then the last proper gig I went to was Nickelback at the. O2 arena.(Oh Oh, that's ).. If you look to your left, you'll see a pillowcase with Chad Kroger's face on (look look that) that.

Emma: 37:26

I am obsessed. (Wait, I've got to take a picture. Hang on, I've got to take a picture. Wait, this is amazing). Oh my God, I'm going to say guess the musician? Yeah, so I'm obsessed with Nickelback. Everyone Don't judge me, it's my childhood soundtrack.

Emma: 37:44

This is how you remind me of what I really am.

Geoff: 37:49

Oh, I love that. Yeah, fabulous yeah.

Emma: 37:52

Everyone instantly unfollows me.

Geoff: 37:54

Okay, here's a question. This has been really interesting. In previous podcasts I've done what you say is your musical weakness (so many, I don't know what to choose from).

Emma: 38:04

Oh my god, um complacency, playing the same repertoire. That's why this app is so helpful for me, because, it you know, I've got access to so many more tunes, there's no excuse not to learn them in in my practice room. Um, complacency, yeah, getting bored of my own rep, I would say, is a big weakness, and I think that's a weakness for a lot of musicians going to the same standards, calling the same tunes. You know, just because we've been performing and working professionally for 15, 20, 30, 40 years, however long you know.

Geoff: 38:31

You see that a lot in older musicians. You know because I was in Georgie Fame's band for 12 years. For years he band for 12 years, for years, he'd do the same things, really, yeah, which (I said, yeah, I mean, he's got that). I mean apart from the obvious. But uh, you know, we put a new song in and five years later he's still calling it a new song on the microphone. Hilarious, uh. Do you ever get nervous on stage?

Emma: 38:49

Yes, I got so nervous for my new year's eve gig this year, so nervous I was doing a gig with an orchestra, um, with the danish radio, Danish Radio Symphony Orchestra in Copenhagen (that's a big event).

Emma: 39:01

It was huge and it was on TV, which is very nerve-wracking because you know you can't take it back once it's done. It's done, and I was singing Bill Evans. I mean it was so niche, like, what an opportunity to do that with an orchestra and I was incredibly nervous, incredibly nervous ( w d y t i m

Geoff: 39:19

A And An

Emma: 39:21

of b being the being being recorded as well, you know, because with this day and age, that will be on the internet forever. Yeah.

Geoff: 39:28

Okay, a few silly questions. What's your favourite sandwich?

Emma: 39:33

Salt beef, of course, as a

Announcement: 39:34

Jewish woman you can't get away with, not having that be your favourite sandwich.

Geoff: 39:36

Carnegie Deli (oh dream Cats). Yeah, love that. A favourite movie?(True? Romance) True Romance. Oh, interesting(love yeah love it Just think wow) it's wow. Do you watch many films?

Emma: 39:48

No, I've got ADHD and I can't sit through them anymore.

Geoff: 39:51

So what's your? Do you have a thing for switching off and sort of relaxing?

Emma: 39:54

Organising my sock drawer. I love to organise. Soothes me.. Like. Like culling and decluttering and then re-cluttering, and then decluttering again.

Geoff: 40:03

Is there a favourite venue that you like to sing in?

Emma: 40:06

Well, listen, I love Ronnie Scott's. Ronnie's is my home. My audiences at Ronnie's are wild and brilliant and they make me feel like a rock star. I love it.

Geoff: 40:19

(I love it so much yeah) I saw that you're going to the Milan Blue Note in. (Yeah, April, April, the third I'm at Milan). Have you been there before?

Emma: 40:26

No, I've been there with the Puppini Sisters, but this is my first time as a solo artist playing there. I'm very, very blessed with an incredible um new record deal, a new agent as well, who's just booking me on fabulous um European festivals and and venues. Now, I'm I'm really really excited about this next stage in my, in my career. You know, I feel like I've worked really really hard and been really consistent and diligent and now I'm starting to sort of see the fruits of that labor and um I get to take my lovely trio, my lovely boys, with me to fabulous places like Sardinia and Croatia and Portugal.

Geoff: 41:03

And.

Emma: 41:03

I'm really, really excited and full of gratitude.

Geoff: 41:06

Finally, a silly question what's your favourite chord?

Emma: 41:11

Oh, oh, oh oh. I'm a sucker for a Lydian, so Major 7, Sharp 11. Let's go with A flat.

Geoff: 41:18

Oh, nice, (because I love A flat actually's go with A-flat oh nice Because I love A-flat actually I love A-flat). Good choice.

Emma: 41:23

Really huge fan of that key (Ah there we go), favourite chord A-flat Major 7, sharp 11. (Thank you very much).

Geoff: 41:35

Maybe you can just finish off with some advice for young musicians starting out.

Emma: 41:38

M y c j Be in the driver's seat of your improvising, of your conviction, of your melodic development, of your storytelling. Be in the driver's seat and don't play or sing until you are Like. I mean practice, obviously, but with repertoire, . Like, ike,. don't want to be a nervous audience member, but with repertoire I don't want to be a nervous audience member. I like seeing you take risks, but as long as I know that you've got the foundation is there that you can dip back into safety at any point, that's my advice excellent, fantastic.

Geoff: 42:10

Well, Emma, thank you so much for doing this.

Emma: 42:12

I really appreciate it.

Geoff: 42:13

(It's so lovely to chat about all this stuff we haven't really chatted, we haven't really met that much in the past.

Emma: 42:21

No, we haven't hung, have we? But we've taken care of it. Now, there you go. (Yeah), it's all recorded.

Geoff: 42:26

Yeah, fantastic, all right, well, thank you very much. Thank you, good luck with everything and I hope the new record goes well.

Emma: 42:33

Thank you so much, and I for the new apps. Yay, the new rep.

Geoff: 42:37

Very soon you'll be getting your promo codes (Fabulous) through the post, (Please, please through the pigeon post).

Emma: 42:43

And yeah, if people want to see what I do with Quartet, then follow me on socials. You will see all of the different things that are possible, especially singers, Actually, especially everyone.

Geoff: 42:53

(Go and see the fun things that I do with quartet rep because um yeah), I can't wait to hear what you do with with three and four, because they're in the right keys, for example.

Emma: 43:01

Oh my gosh, it's so exciting, and I also change the the tempos sometimes as well, so it's interesting to see what different people are doing with it (yeah, yeah, amazing okay T a . . guys guys.

Announcement: 43:12

(Thanks for listening, bye) Thank you for making it to the end of another podcast. Please subscribe if you want to hear more of them as they land. The Quartet Jazz Standards Podcast is a UK Music Apps production.... Quartet Quartet for for Quartet for iOS, taking your jazz play along to another level. Search for Quartet on the App Store c. com find out more at quartetappcom.