Geoff: 0:00

Hello podcats, Geoff Gascoyne here, hope you're well. Today I'm in Holland, actually. I'm part of the way through a tour. I've taken this advantage to talk to an old friend, Steve Fishwick, the trumpet about bebop, about influences and loads of other stuff like that.

Geoff: 0:29

So here we go.

Announcement: 0:50

T he Quartet jazz standards podcast is brought to you by the Quartet app for iOS, taking your jazz play along to another level.

Geoff: 0:53

Hi Steve, how are you today

Steve: 0:55

Pretty good.

Geoff: 0:56

Can you just tell me a bit about how you got started, what your um influences were and how you first started improvising?

Steve: 1:02

I guess it's the usual story. You know, started playing trumpet when I was eight at school and free lessons and stuff and I had a really great teacher. He was great because his enthusiasm was really, really great and he was really infectious, you know so.

Steve: 1:18

Makes a difference that doesn't it Massively? Yeah, and he was. He was just really curious about music but it was kind of strictly classical lessons. I think he used to play with a Hallé Orchestra but by the time I started studying with him he was kind of at the end of his career, I guess, and he was just teaching, but he hadn't lost any of his enthusiasm for music. You know, strictly classical lessons, and he took me through my grades and stuff like that. Uh, yeah, I guess I've started getting into jazz when I was about 13, so I started playing when I was eight and then by the time I was about 12, 13 or something, it was the time of the.

Steve: 1:55

You know, the late 80s, early 90s was the uh, jazz boom in the UK and when I talked to my students about it these days they look at me like I'm crazy. But I mean, you'll remember, you know how it was everywhere. It was all over the media and in the newspapers, on the TV all the time Courtney Pine and Tommy Smith and the Jazz Warriors and Andy Sheppard and you know it was. It was like a hit, fashionable thing. They were kind of showing stuff on the TV like old Jazz 65s and there's a bunch of documentaries on the BBC about Winton Marsalis and it was just like, wow, what is this?

Steve: 2:32

this music, jazz, you know, and they're making it up, they're improvising. How are they doing that? I was just curious about it. You know a lot of classical, especially at that time a lot of classical players would kind of look down on jazz and kind of, oh no, especially trumpet teachers, that, oh, you don't want to mess with jazz, it'll mess up your sound or whatever, it'll mess up your.

Steve: 2:51

He was just as enthusiastic about it and curious about it and, as as we were, you know my brother as well because my brother's a drummer. He was getting into it too. But I remember going to hear Dizzy Gillespie at the Free Trade Hall and my, my teacher was Manchester right yeah, that's where you grew up in Manchester, my teacher. His name was John Crosdale. He was at the concert as well and, uh, in the next lesson, a couple of days later, he brought the program from the concert and it'd been signed by Dizzy Gillespie and Arturo Sandoval, and he'd gone backstage and like chatted to Arturo and Dizzy about trumpet and stuff and he really gave us the program to keep you know oh that's nice.

Steve: 3:32

Yeah, he's a great guy.

Geoff: 3:34

So how did you start improvising then? What was your first steps?

Steve: 3:37

Oh gosh, it was just like groping in the dark. I guess there were summer schools, like Wavendo n Summer School and we kind of found out about that and went on that and stuff. And there was a record shop called Decoy Records in Manchester and that was really great. It was a really, really good record shop. So we used to go there and spend all our money there and get a bunch of records and listen to them over and over and then go back a few months later and get more. But actually playing. I remember like sending off to uh, Jazz wise catalog e for just like books like Jamey Aebers old playalongs and stuff like that and you know, trying to decipher the scales.

Steve: 4:13

Remember they used to write the scales out yeah, they had the scale syllabus, wasn't it?

Geoff: 4:18

all these written modes and stuff, yeah as well, yeah but they used to write out the scales.

Steve: 4:23

They had the chords written out and then they'd write out the scales and stuff. And it was trying to, you know, trying to decipher that and it was. It just wasn't really working because like a dictionary, wasn't it? Or something you just end up like going up and down the scales, and it doesn't sound very good, you know.

Steve: 4:36

And then, you could kind of gradually piece it together. And I remember going to Wavenden and just asking people questions. I remember a couple of light bulb moments where, like I remember going to Wavenden and just asking people questions. I remember a couple of light bulb moments where, like I remember going to Jim Tomlinson at the end of a class and asking him like what should I do, what should I practice? And he just told me to like arpeggiate the chords in time so that I could kind of get them in my brain and that really, really helps.

Geoff: 5:01

Yeah.

Steve: 5:03

And the other one was Steve Waterman, just showing me all these transcriptions that he'd done himself like written down. So I went away and did that and it was probably, I'm sure, I made like loads and loads of mistakes, but just the process of doing it really, really helps. And then it from that the mist started to clear a little bit. But it was just kind of getting on that path of figuring out how just some basics really.

Geoff: 5:25

And you did.

Geoff: 5:26

You start some transcribing yourself.

Steve: 5:28

Then I did yeah, yeah, I just started transcribing stuff myself and, like you know, probably stuff that I was way too hard, but a bit of Lee Morgan and Clifford Brown and yeah, and you know I couldn't, I probably couldn't play. I'm sure I couldn't play at all, but it was I could play at all, but I could play some of it. And then you start, I don't know, you start putting licks in different places and I kind of felt, after doing that, I kind of started feeling fairly natural because I listened a lot. That was the thing I used to listen to jazz all day long.

Steve: 5:58

So, I think that was my saving grace. Really. That's why I was never really a very good classical player, because I didn't really listen to enough of it for it to seep in.

Geoff: 6:06

I remember the first time I met you. You probably don't remember, but you were at the Academy and I was a teacher there at the time. I remember assessing a class that you were in. I did, yeah, and your year at the Academy was a really strong year.

Steve: 6:20

There was a.

Geoff: 6:20

Rando. Fleming. Tom Cawley. Gareth Lock rane. Gareth Lock rane. Osian Roberts, Osian Roberts. Yeah, my brother, yeah, and your brother. I mean, it was a great year, wasn't?

Steve: 6:31

it. Yeah, we were lucky to be in that year. Yeah, it was a very strong year.

Geoff: 6:34

The thing I remember about that is it was a Wayne Shorter project.

Steve: 6:37

Oh right, You're all playing Wayne Shorter music. Brilliant, it was really whether it was a third, maybe it was a third year or so, I don't remember, but it was a really high level. I'm pretty sure I didn't know what was going on in the music.

Geoff: 6:50

Yeah, didn't sound like got away with it, maybe. Yeah, yeah, so that would have been the 90s, right? So you moved into 94 to 98.

Steve: 6:57

Yep, yeah, we were at the Academy. Yeah, right, how was that experience? Yeah, it was great. I mean it was. I think it's a lot different back then to how it is now. You know, all those people that you mentioned. I think like learning as much from being around people, like that, you know, and kind of learning together. Yeah, I think we all learned a hell of a lot from each other, as well as from teachers as well, but it was, um, yeah, it was a great experience and coming to London and stuff. I really took it for granted at the time, but in the first year we were living me and my brother were living at student accommodation just behind the Academy, so we walked to Ronnie Scott's and stayed there all night and then walked home, that's amazing, you know, go and see like Cedar Walton or Elvin Jones or someone you know what it was like.

Geoff: 7:41

And in those days I mean Ronnie Scott's it was like a pound to get in, wasn't it? Yeah, it was ridiculously cheap, yeah, yeah, I mean, that was the days when you could play for a week there, couldn't you?

Steve: 7:50

Yeah, everyone was playing there for a week or sometimes two, or sometimes a month or something. Yeah, I know, like Airto would be there for a month.

Geoff: 7:57

Did you start to run your own band around that time?

Steve: 8:06

At some point I started writing quite a lot of music and stuff and that was kind of a good learning process. But I didn't really start my own bands. I mean I guess I had my own bands, but I never I did. When I was at college I never really did any gigs. I didn't really feel in a rush to like put a CD out or like to be out doing loads of gigs and stuff. It felt a bit more relaxed, like nowadays everybody is like they got it, like doing now now. Now. Now, you know, because there's, I guess, way more competition, probably a lot harder. But you were working well, you were doing not, not when I was at college. No, I mean I, I, when I left college it was, um, I mean I was lucky because my brother was doing quite a lot of gigs by the time he left, uh. So I used to kind of go to his gigs and sit in and stuff, and that that's how I met a lot of people really, and from that I started kind of slowly building up work from that.

Steve: 8:51

So, thanks, Matt,

Geoff: 8:52

People who don't know you. You're twins, aren't you? We are twins yeah. Are you identical twins? Yeah. I know all about twins and twins myself. Yeah, yeah. Do you have a special twin thing when you play together? Do you have a special twin thing when you play together, do you

Geoff: 9:04

feel anything special when you're playing with your brother.

Steve: 9:06

I mean, I don't know if it's like some telepathy thing, but it's just like we've heard a lot of the same music and kind of grown up. You know listening Interaction happens that way because there's like a communication there.

Geoff: 9:18

What about teaching? At what point did that become a part of your life? Did you enjoy teaching?

Steve: 9:28

I mean, I take it seriously. I take it very, very seriously and I do feel like, as a teacher, if you're going to teach somebody, you have a commitment to those students. I feel like I have to do my best for them. You know they're relying on you, you know, to help them. So I do take it very seriously and I've thought a lot about it since I started teaching. Whereabouts do you teach now? Well, mainly at Leeds Conservatoire, but I teach at Trinity and a tiny bit at the Academy and at Birmingham and a tiny, tiny bit at The Guildhall.

Geoff: 9:56

Do you do a lot of preparation for students.

Steve: 9:59

Now, because I've been doing it for like 12 years, I've got a lot of resources, you know, on the computer or whatever. So it's kind of I have to do less, but I still think about it a lot and think about, like certain students, and what the best approach might be and stuff like that, and also I think with my own struggles with the instrument and stuff and trying to overcome those things. I feel like I've had probably every problem going like with the trumpet, like embouchure changes and, you know, issues with breathing and you know all this kind of stuff.

Steve: 10:32

So somehow like overcome it and found a way, you know, figure it out by asking people that you come across asking different, either either people that I'm playing with or people that you know, American musicians, or whoever people you know, American musicians, or whoever people that you respect, or older musicians or whoever you know, even sometimes people younger you know.

Geoff: 10:52

What's some of the best advice that you've got about the trumpet?

Steve: 10:55

The best advice about the trumpet. I did some gigs with Lew Soloff years ago with a big band, with Pete Long's big band, gpie Arna it was called playing the music of Dizzy Gillespie and he kind of took me aside and told me some stuff and I kind of picked his brains and just in about an hour or something of conversation with him and he was like he gave me so much information in that hour, yeah, that I went away and investigated what's like? Like what Really yeah that I went away and investigated.

Geoff: 11:23

Like what, what sort of information?

Steve: 11:25

Well, he told me he gave me like one breathing exercise. But he told me about this School of Brass teaching from the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. This guy called Arnold Jacobs, who was a tuba player. He was an expert in breathing and I went and bought the book and got pretty obsessed with it all. Actually, and bought all these breathing devices and stuff like that.

Geoff: 11:47

Breathing devices. What's that? Yeah?

Steve: 11:48

Like stuff that you use to kind of take your brain away from what you're doing with your respiratory system, physiologically, so that you can just do what it's designed to do without your brain getting in the way. Wow, just like little simple things, like a little plastic chamber with a ping ping pong ball inside it and when you breathe you're supposed to keep the ping pong ball at the top of the chamber and not let it To keep a constant breath Yeah, like an inhalation and exhalation, yeah, things like that. And one of the things he said was you know, you can criticize anybody on any instrument, but why? Why would you do that?

Steve: 12:24

Everybody's got their strong points and everybody does something well, he said he could criticize Wynton Marsalis or he could criticize whoever you know, but what? What's? What's the point? He was basically saying, like, look on the positive side of everybody's playing. And the other thing was he just said don't get up every day and think it's a competition. Don't try and play better than anybody else. You get up every day and think it's a competition. Don't try and play better than anybody else. You get up every day and you play this thing to the best of your ability because you love to play it, and that's the reason why you should be doing it.

Steve: 12:53

Yeah, and I thought that was kind of sage advice really.

Geoff: 12:57

It's funny you should say that because I I started playing guitar in in lockdown. I feel exactly the same way about that. Actually, I just get up and I have no desire to go and do gigs or anything like that. I just want to get better and just the joy of playing it. Do you feel like that about the trumpet?

Steve: 13:12

I would happily sit at home and practice trumpet every day. I mean, I guess at some point I would get frustrated because I want to go and do a gig.

Geoff: 13:20

I love sitting at home and practicing, just the joy of making music. Yeah, I love it. Yeah, yeah, fantastic. And now you have something to practice with, right.

Steve: 13:31

That is very true, you've just bought an iPad. So you know my early days of trying to learn how to improvise and stuff with the Jamey. I mean, there was nothing like this around.

Geoff: 13:40

The closest thing was a Jamey Aebersold but you would have to spend an absolute fortune to buy that many Jamey Aebersold play along records, I know, so of course we're talking about the Quartet apps, of course, for anyone who doesn't know, so any particular tunes you like.

Steve: 13:57

Well, the only one I can really think of is Stella by Starlight. Sure all right, Right so you're going to play two choruses and you're going to improvise on two choruses of Stella by Starlight. Do do uh.

Geoff: 16:06

Oh yeah, something like that Great, Does it feel natural to play with that track?

Steve: 16:13

Good, I like the way it went from two into four there. Yeah, of course it's a band. Yeah, but if you play it on a gig or something or a jam session without naming the other app that you play along with, yeah, I mean, you're not going to get that on iReal, so it's things like that. Just little details like that.

Geoff: 16:32

Yeah yeah, yeah, on most of these standards you'll find that. So you probably remember this from the recording session. So first chorus is in two-feel and the second chorus is in four-feel, which is kind of like going up through the gears, isn't it? Yeah, exactly. And then if is two. So which kind of feels natural? Because it wouldn't kind of naturally go back to two.

Steve: 16:52

You could loop the first one as well, right?

Geoff: 16:53

You could? Yeah, yeah, you could.

Steve: 16:54

So you could like practice playing in two and practice playing in four, which is great Sure yeah,

Geoff: 17:03

Let's talk about Stella by Starlight for a minute.

Geoff: 17:05

It's just an B flat, isn't it? But the first chord is E, half diminished.

Steve: 17:09

Apparently, the original B flat diminished is the first chord.

Geoff: 17:13

Yeah, I remember hearing the original version. Actually it's from a movie, isn't it?

Steve: 17:17

Actually the harmony is very different. I don't know why these standards like where they come from. I think a lot of them are what the chords that Miles plays.

Geoff: 17:24

It's the Miles effect, isn't it?

Steve: 17:30

When he played standard, he kind of bastardised a lot of changes, didn't he?

Geoff: 17:32

Absolutely yeah.

Geoff: 17:32

Yeah, there's only particular things that you were thinking of when you were playing that?

Steve: 17:39

Other than like the odd thing about you know where's the next cadence going or whatever.

Steve: 17:44

You know just little things like that

Geoff: 17:45

Do you tend to think in in um full cadences, like two, five, one, or do you think of? Do you separate the fives from the ones, or how do you?

Steve: 17:53

I think it's a good idea, or, for me, I find it helpful to think about the same thing in maybe two or three different ways, so like, for example, that first 2-5 or even those descending 2-5s at the end, like, like you just said, you can, you can think of it like a two five, so you can play the two chord, then the five, or you can just think of the dominant and just play like one big dominant yeah you know, I think I played like some triad pairs on the dominant or something, or you can play it like a scale. Show me what the pairs were on the A7 there.

Steve: 18:28

So you've got my A7. In concert I'd be playing an A augmented and the other major triad, that's a triad turned away, so E flat, so A augmented and E flat In B flat. For B flat instruments I'd be playing B and F. So I'd be going like this, I'd go through the inversion, so like this, but I go through the inversion. You know, it's like an A altered.

Geoff: 19:16

Yeah, nice, sounds like jazz already, doesn't

Geoff: 19:18

it.

Geoff: 19:18

Just by putting those triads together.

Steve: 19:20

Yeah, exactly.

Geoff: 19:21

Are you a particular fan of using licks?

Steve: 19:28

Yeah, like stole loads and loads of vocabulary in licks and stuff. Yeah, and there was a point where I was stealing licks and trying to fit them in. I mean I don't do that so much anymore, but it was definitely a huge, important learning curve. But really I'm just trying to not think of anything other than the melody, the solo and hearing stuff in my head and then just trying to do that in real time, trying to play it

Geoff: 19:52

If someone were to say to you can you play like Lee Morgan or can you play like Dizzy Gillespie?

Geoff: 19:56

Would there be certain things that you would play that would indicate the style of those trumpet players?

Steve: 20:03

Yeah, I mean there's certain people that I've studied a lot and sometimes it can kind of depend on the type of tune. You know, if I I was playing a Kenny Wheeler tune, for example, it'd be hard to sound like Lee Morgan. You know what I mean. Yeah, but if it's like a shuffle blues, then it's a lot easier to kind of like get into that you know, into that kind of mindset, right.

Steve: 20:24

But yeah, yeah, there is certain, if the tune kind of calls for that, yeah, I can definitely like turn on like a Blue Mitchell thing or or a Lee Morgan or Kenny Dorham well, I know.

Geoff: 20:34

I know um Lee Morgan, for example. There's lots of twiddles, aren't there?

Steve: 20:38

like effects and half valve smears and false fingering and stuff.

Geoff: 20:43

Yeah, that's kind of tricks can you show us a couple of those, if you get?

Steve: 20:45

I mean he did things like you know. He kind of like tongue-in's like you know, kind of do things like you know, things like that, or you go, you know this kind of like a lot of kind of bluesy stuff or, um, like So you're talking about Lee Morgan, right? Yeah, I'm talking about Lee Morgan, yeah, yeah, this kind of stuff. You do things like that. He kind of like had a shouting kind of style. You know, very outgoing kind of sounded like.

Steve: 21:17

He was like an outgoing kind of personality, which for me it was, I'm more of an introvert, so it was like, but I think it was good for me to kind of study that study his playing and really try to, even though it was kind of uncomfortable at first, it was good for me to kind of study that, study his playing, and really try to, even though it was kind of uncomfortable at first, it was good for me to kind of do that sometimes I get students I think I stole this idea from um might be from Dave Lehman or someone to kind of for them to get you know if they get really into one thing like lee konitz or something, or then try and get them to transcribe somebody who's like completely different to the way they play, because they're

Steve: 21:50

definitely gonna get

Geoff: 21:51

Here's a slightly odd question, but do you think it's difficult for an introvert to actually get out and play solos? Being a soloist is a very extrovert kind of thing to do, really isn't it?

Steve: 22:01

it is, yeah, yeah, I mean, even now I kind of find it a bit difficult. Uh, I mean, I love playing so much that that's the overriding thing, like I love getting with a band and playing music.

Steve: 22:14

I don't think I'm really one of those people that likes to be centre of attention

Geoff: 22:19

Which is maybe why you don't lead your own band so much, because that takes a lot of balls doesn't it to stand up and run your own band? I know what it's like. I used to struggle as well. I used to run your own band. I know what it's like, I mean.

Steve: 22:31

I used to struggle as well. I used to run my own band as well. Yeah, I don't like that aspect of it so much, but a lot of the reason why I do it is just for the music and the joy of playing.

Geoff: 22:49

All right, I've got a few questions just to finish off which I ask everybody, and the first question is what's your favourite album? That's impossible. When I ask you that question, first thing that comes to your mind.

Steve: 22:59

I mean, the first thing that comes to my mind is like Kind of Blue or something. Yeah, because I mean it's probably The album. But that's such a boring answer, isn't it?

Geoff: 23:06

Yeah, but it was influential on so many people. I mean, everyone says that what about on a technical level? Was there things that you studied, that you transcribed a lot?

Steve: 23:15

I think there's certain solos. I think like the Moanin solo, Lee Morgan on that Art Blakey album.

Geoff: 23:22

They're kind of legendary, those albums, aren't they? Yeah?

Steve: 23:25

Like all that stuff I don't know. I mean, you know it sounds like that's all I listen to, is like old stuff and I guess that's my main influences are all like the greats. But I do listen to more contemporary stuff too and try and keep abreast of what's going on now. But I do think it's important for people to at least know the history of their instrument. You know the trumpet and know well from Louis Armstrong. I mean, I'm not a Louis Armstrong expert but I do love to listen to Louis Armstrong and Bix Beider beck and like on, you know, through the swing era.

Geoff: 23:58

Have you ever transcribed or studied that stuff, early stuff.

Steve: 24:01

Yeah, yeah, I mean, there's people that can do it really really well, like Pete Horsfall, and Miguel Gorodi sounds amazing at it. And there's this young guy, Lewis Taylor, who's like it's just his natural I am with bebop. He's like that with like that kind of swing to bebop style and it just sounds authentic.

Geoff: 24:22

I was with Pete Horsfall last week. Actually he played on my library thing which was an early jazz thing you know, and I was watching him and I was thinking about that, because it's the vibrato, isn't?

Steve: 24:33

it. Yeah, like a different sound, like a shake. Almost it's a little shake, yeah.

Geoff: 24:37

That comes from the lips, doesn't it? But physically, moving the instrument around.

Steve: 24:40

People do it different ways. I mean the old school way of doing it is like, yeah, like actually shaking the instrument, and some people did it with their lips. I think it's not something that I, that style, I don't feel comfortable with. I always feel like I'm faking it. It doesn't feel like it's my natural, Although I love listening to it and I love hearing people do it, and it always really impresses me when I hear people do it really well. You know.

Geoff: 25:06

So the second question is is there a favourite musician, alive or dead, that you would like to play with?

Steve: 25:12

Yeah, loads, loads of them. Yeah, I don't know if I can name one. I mean, there's a whole load of trumpet players I wish I'd have seen live.

Steve: 25:20

Like you know all the ones I mentioned, Blue Mitchell, I mean, you know, I would love to have played with McCoy Tyner, because I think that he could play any style. He could play bebop, he could play just straight down the line blues, he could play like modal, he could kind of go in any direction, and I mean it would be absolutely terrifying to play with him. But I feel like, no matter what you would do, he would just kind of be help and support you with you.

Geoff: 25:51

Yeah, so so has there been a highlight of your career so far?

Steve: 25:55

Well, yeah, I mean there's been high points. Yeah, I mean I played with Anita O'Day a little bit in London and in New York. You know, I got to meet Bob Cranshaw and play with him a little bit and my brother would. he lived in New York for a while and he was kind of mentored by Bob, so I got to kind of play with him a little bit. My brother lived in New York for a while and he was mentored by Bob, so we got to play with him a little bit and hang out with him. We recorded with Cedar Walton and Peter Washington. I can't really believe that we had the courage to approach him and stuff, but that was amazing.

Geoff: 26:25

How did that affect your playing and your attitude? Did you raise your game to match theirs?

Steve: 26:30

Well, it's funny, I don't sit and listen to my own recordings very much, but I did put it on the other day. I don't know why someone was talking about it or something. I thought I'd check it out and I was pleasantly surprised. I mean, I wish I could go back and do it again now, you know, because I think I play much, much better.

Geoff: 26:47

What's the name of the album?

Steve: 26:48

It's called the Osian Roberts Steve Fishwick Quintet meets Cedar Walton. I mean, it's on YouTube and Spotify. Where did you do it? In London? No, in New York at Nola's Penthouse Studios. What an experience. I did a couple of tours with Hod O'Brien, who's kind of a lesser-known bebop piano player, but he replaced Bill Evans in the Oscar Pettiford Band in the 50s and that that was amazing. He was like the nicest guy on the planet and an incredible piano player. Played with the WDR Big Band a few times with people like Ron Carter and Jimmy Heath and Peter Erskine and Dick Oats and Terell Stafford

Geoff: 27:28

Wow, you've done some great things.

Steve: 27:30

So it was you know, things like that that are, I mean, so lucky you know, yeah, like some definite highlights.

Geoff: 27:36

Amazing. What was the last concert you attended?

Steve: 27:40

I've been going to quite a lot of classical music concerts. Recently I think I went to see the London Philharmonic and they played the Alban Berg Concerto and then they did a Brahms Symphony. But I thought I was going to enjoy the Berg more than the Brahms, but it was the other way around.

Geoff: 27:58

It's funny, sometimes. Those Brahms symphonies are so melodic, aren't they?

Steve: 28:02

Yeah, and they played it so well as well. They just played the hell out of the Brahms. Where did you see that? It was at the World Festival. Nice.

Geoff: 28:10

What would you say is your musical weakness?

Steve: 28:12

Like I was saying before, like you know people who can play like an early style I wish I could kind of do that. And also I'm not that great at playing lead trumpet. You know there's kind of like a new generation of guys like Tom Walsh and James Coperton people and Jim Davidson who can kind of do both. They can play really good jazz and they can play really great lead as well and I kind of wish I could. I've got better at it. I can kind of fake it, but it's, it doesn't come naturally to me. No, I've much prefer sitting there third or fourth and following somebody else rather than like the guy who's leading the whole.

Geoff: 28:48

Yeah, Do you ever get nervous on stage?

Steve: 28:51

It's rare but yeah sometimes. But I think if I do get nervous it's more like good nerves. It's more excitement than nerves.

Geoff: 29:01

Yeah yeah, what's your favourite sandwich,

Steve: 29:06

My favourite sandwich. Well, you can't beat a bacon sandwich, can you,

Geoff: 29:10

you can't no. What about a favourite movie? Do you watch many?

Steve: 29:14

You I used to watch loads, yeah, but I don't so much anymore. But the last one I watched when David Lynch died, I kind of went on a bit of a mission to see the ones I hadn't seen and I watched. What's that one about? That jazz saxophone player Someone?

Steve: 29:35

breaks into his house and they take videos of him and his wife sleeping I don't think I've seen that one and then they post the video to them through the mailbox and they're watching it and it obviously really freaks them out and it gets really really weird. But it was quite player,? one. It was quite a good one. Cool. The music's not very good in it, though.

Geoff: 29:51

What's your favorite venue to play in?

Steve: 29:52

Just give me a like a kind of a filthy jazz club somewhere into some basement, somewhere you know that's relaxed and not not uptight and not not you know I'm not. I'm not that bothered about playing some super prestigious place. I mean, it's nice to play in places that are respected and stuff, but I'm quite happy just playing in some basement somewhere.

Geoff: 30:11

Yeah, yeah, you know. What about a favourite country or a favourite city to?

Steve: 30:15

visit. I mean New York's like the obvious choice, but then with all the stuff going on in America and stuff, I'm not really. I've got friends there. It's been a while since I've been, but it's just an exciting place, isn't it? I mean I like Germany place, isn't it?

Steve: 30:32

I mean, I like Germany, I'm not so keen on Berlin.

Steve: 30:33

I like Munich and I like Holland too. I always like coming here. Yeah, I've not been to Holland very much.

Geoff: 30:35

We're going to Amsterdam tomorrow so yeah, that'll be, that's a great city, you know? One last question, and it is what's your favorite

Geoff: 30:45

chord,

Steve: 30:48

But it depends where it's going, though, like what's before in the context. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. Like when I write music these days I kind of use that, yeah, like a minor seven chord but with a with a flat six. I mean, you know it's in the scale of just like a natural minor. But if you put, actually put like the nine and the flat six in there with the, with the, with the third and the seventh, yeah it can sound pretty cool yeah, okay, do you play piano?

Steve: 31:16

yeah right, I mean not very well like composers. Yeah, so you've studied sort of harmony on piano and voicings and so on yeah, yeah, I mean it's one of those things that I wish I had more time to sit down and really practice, but but yeah, yeah, I mean I kind of know what I want to play, but but I just can't do it in time with a band, you know. But I can sit there and I can, you know.

Geoff: 31:36

That's the good thing about composing you can do it everything in slow motion.

Steve: 31:39

Yeah exactly. Yeah, yeah.

Geoff: 31:40

Thanks for your time, steve. No worries, looking forward to playing with Matt Bianco again this evening.

Steve: 31:51

It'll be Bye. Great, it's fun.

Announcement: 31:52

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