Geoff: 0:02

Hello Podcats, Geoff Gascoyne here. Today I'm speaking to the wonderful guitar player, Nigel Price. He's coming round to my house. We're going to talk all about the guitar and about jazz standards, about being in the army, running a quartet and loads of other jazzy stuff like that. So here we go.

Announcement: 0:38

The Quartet Jazz Standards podcast is brought to you by the Quartet app for iOS. Taking your jazz play along to another level.

Geoff: 0:47

Here we are.

Geoff: 0:48

How are you today?

Nigel: 0:49

I'm not too bad, all things considered.

Geoff: 0:51

We've not really sat down before and chatted that much. How did you start getting into jazz?

Nigel: 0:56

Well, it was just a kind of survival thing really. I started playing when I was 11. Just got right into it, got the bug. You know, as you do, you can't leave it alone. Ridiculous practice days.

Geoff: 1:07

Where did you grow up?

Nigel: 1:08

In Epsom in Surrey, I still live there yeah, not in the same house, but, yeah, there was never a reason to move out. It's close enough to London and I've got family there as well, so it's great. You know, it was kind of evolution, I suppose. I mean, I, I started out playing blues, but it was always very sociable. I'd always have a band, but then I soon came to realize that if you didn't sing and you were just a blues guitar player, then there wasn't an awful lot of opportunity really. I used to get these crazy bands together and we used to play blues, and then we sort of started venturing to fusion and that sort of thing, um, and that in turn led to sort of finding out about some of the more jazzier side of things. The whole thing was interrupted when I joined the infantry at 16, ah, so I had to leave it all alone for ages, you know

Geoff: 1:53

how long were you,

Geoff: 1:54

did you do your service for?

Nigel: 1:55

Three years 262 days wow, not that I was counting, but that's, that's another whole. So you weren't in a military band no no, no, no, I was no, I was in infantry. I was just cannon fodder. I was a steely-eyed cleaner of the night. Where did you go? I spent a couple of years in Northern Ireland, went to Canada and then stationed in Shropshire.

Geoff: 2:15

Three that enjoyable?

Nigel: 2:18

Well, I mean to a point, I really screwed up at school really badly. So I went to a sort of grammar school and I was into the music and I used to sort of do the house music. Did you not think there was a career in music? I wasn't getting any support there because unless you played piano then they didn't really want to know, or unless you had piano lessons. So none of my family were musicians. I don't really know where it came from, but I messed up quite badly at school, ended up getting kind of thrown out. My brother had just joined the Royal Marines about a year before, and he's coming back all windswept and interesting and I thought, okay, let's do this and I guess it was character building, wasn't it?

Nigel: 2:55

I think it's got to have an effect, doesn't it? In fact, I had a sort of epiphany just a few years back, because I was a lance corporal in the in the end, which means you're in charge of a four-man section and I suddenly realized that I was traveling around the country in charge of a four-man team that's what exactly you're doing now god you know yeah

Nigel: 3:15

I mean maybe, maybe it's, maybe they got inside my head a bit more than I thought, surely that gave you the discipline, didn't it to you know, run a, run a band. For example, I don't, I don't know, I mean, who's to say what it would have been like any other way. But yeah, I mean, I do treat it like a sort of mission, I suppose.

Geoff: 3:32

Yeah, because I've seen some of your tours that they're really long and exhausting, aren't they? Yeah, I think 2016 was 56 dates. So when did you start improvising, do you remember?

Nigel: 3:47

What happened really was that after I left the army I was very driven and forming bands and they always used to sort of fall apart or there'd be politics and all that sort of thing. And it just felt like the chain was as strong as the weakest link. Well, that's kind of true in jazz, though, isn't?

Geoff: 4:00

it.

Nigel: 4:00

Well it is true, it is true. But what I sort of considered was that if I could be just like a lone gun, like a hired hand, and if I could learn a lot of standards and improvise, then I could, as a sideline, even just go out on my own. You know, and you know, if you don't like the drummer or whatever, or the bass player or whoever, then you never have to play with them again because it's just a one-night stand, isn't it? And so I just decided to try and get as good at that as possible. What was your process for getting good?

Nigel: 4:35

Did you transcribe stuff? There was a certain amount of that, definitely. But I remember hearing from someone it's gone now into the mists of time about people saying don't emulate, don't actually take anything down and use it, because you're just going to be regurgitating everything. So I'd sort of hear something and work it out and then try and twist it around and try and make it my own, trying to create my own language. I suppose that was my main focus, really trying to end up with a, with a sort of unique but isn't.

Geoff: 5:08

Isn't um copying someone? Isn't that part of the learning process? Oh yeah, no, of course you do that as well.

Nigel: 5:13

Of course, yeah, yeah, yeah but I'd, I'd, I'd be more inclined to sort of take a step back and say, when I'm listening to Joe Pass or whatever you know, it's not just the notes, it's about the, the vibe and the and the kind of the pace of it all and just the sort of um sounds a bit hippie, but like the soundscape of it all. You know, sort of take a step back and look at the whole thing, rather than actually sort of go right inside and nick this lick and that lick and that lick.

Geoff: 5:37

So who are your heroes? Who were your first kind of jazz inspiration? I suppose well it's.

Nigel: 5:43

It's odd, isn't it? Because we're all after the fact, aren't we? You know, I mean, I was born in 69. You know the real classics were either getting on or gone by then. So it's always going to be looking back. The stuff that was happening at that time was things like John Schofield and Pat Metheny and things like that, and I just thought, well, okay, I'm just going to have a little look back in history just so I can understand the reference points. Just for a year or two I just jumped down the rabbit hole and I kind of never came out. You know, I had no idea about all these players like Tal Farlow and Joe Pass and Wes, and, to be honest, I kind of consume all my music on the road.

Nigel: 6:22

Yeah, of course, yeah. You've just got hours and hours and hours on your own. I consume all my music on the road. Yeah, of course, yeah.

Nigel: 6:25

You've just got hours and hours and hours on your own. I mean, it's a pretty lonely life really. You know, you practise on your own at home, and then you get in the car and you're on your own, yeah, and you turn up and you're all excited at the gig. You actually talk to some human beings.

Geoff: 6:34

Yeah, would you say, you ever use licks.

Nigel: 6:45

Is that something that you ever thought? Did you take licks from other players and did you put them into your own play? There was some of that. I remember going round a trumpet player's house once and he'd done loads of transcriptions like thousands of them, and he was asking me if I transcribed stuff and I explained pretty much what I did to you and then we played together and he said, well, where's all this stuff coming from? He said, have you just worked it out with the chord tones? And I said, well, yeah, and I think coming from. He said, have you just worked it out with the chord tones? And I said, well, yeah, and um, and I think it's all there.

Nigel: 7:12

Actually, if you do that, just just sort of um, put the good chord, you know the chord tones on the downbeats and the and the altered notes, then it just falls into place. It just sounds like Joe Pass immediately. You know, I wish it was that simple. I mean, it kind of is in a way. Yeah, I could demonstrate, could demonstrate if you like you can I love it?

Nigel: 7:26

Go ahead.

Nigel: 7:26

I spent a lot of time turning the microscope on learning. Well, I guess in hindsight I'd call it voice leading. Say so, here's the first arpeggio, if you want. So here's C minor in order, and then change to the next available note of the next arpeggio. If you want. So here's c minor in order, and then change to the next available note of the next arpeggio, which is going to be c for f, F7, then the flat seven, and then flat nine, uh, and then the next available in b flat, which is going to be major seven.

Geoff: 8:03

You mean the closest, the next closest note, don't you? Yeah, yeah.

Nigel: 8:07

Yeah, yeah and it's. I spent an incredible amount of time doing all this in groups of five frets all over the neck. I spent about three hours a day for seven years doing that. That was just a part of my practice to a metronome and that just seemed to iron out virtually everything you know. So now when I'm improvising, you know I'm not thinking about the numbers per se, but I can call them out. You know, as I'm doing it like one three, three, three, four, four, two three, 13, major seven, major seven, one flat nine.

Nigel: 8:57

That was one, so I'm always aware of where all the really good chords are. Do you teach?

Geoff: 9:04

Do you do much teaching or any teaching, if someone asks me for a lesson, I say no.

Nigel: 9:12

And if someone asks me again, I'll say no. And if they have the bare-faced cheek to ask me a third time, then I'll consider it.

Geoff: 9:18

Okay, would you give me a lesson? No, can you give me a lesson? No, go on, just give me a lesson.

Nigel: 9:26

All right?

Geoff: 9:26

no, can you give me a lesson? No, go on, just give me a lesson, all right then. Yeah, that works, that was easy. I've been learning guitar for the since lockdown, um, which is why I've got these guitars here and I started playing classical guitar, but I'm sort of getting into jazz guitar I. I find it's totally mind-boggling how many shapes there are.

Nigel: 9:39

Yes, well, that's that's why I did this.

Nigel: 9:41

It just shows you all the shapes, if you, if you play within like a five fret yeah group it shows you everything yeah,

Geoff: 9:47

But just the difference between a shape on the first four strings and then the second to the fifth, and it's just mind-boggling.

Geoff: 9:53

Did you have a process for for getting them in order,

Nigel: 9:56

or well, yeah, I mean it's um, I uh, it was possible, um, to just go through the um, the fourths for, but in fact what I did is make pages and pages and pages of random notes, just so I had to learn them, but just for the sake of it. Now we could go around in fourths. If you like, I'm just going to play, say, major seven arpeggios, major seven arpeggios In the first five frets, no open strings. Okay, so we just go C.

Nigel: 10:20

Okay.

Nigel: 10:23

And then change to the next available note F and then B flat.

Nigel: 10:29

E flat, A flat B flat. G flat B, E.

Nigel: 10:39

And A, I'm allowed to use the bottom one For that one.

Geoff: 10:43

D G Back to the start and that's just showed you every single yeah shape okay, so you could do that with with chords as well.

Nigel: 10:54

Cool voices as well yeah, so I did that for all of the kind of cool. You know well everything, but that's just the start of it, doesn't it you got? Well, I mean, it's just's just kind of knowing where to put your fingers and I guess for the, you know, for the rules I mean it was actually learning tunes that like showed me a lot of this stuff. Things like I don't know, like minor seven flat five. You know, arguably the first chord of Stella by Starlight and that's the fourth.

Nigel: 11:27

Yeah, that's the fourth on the half diminished chord. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like Beautiful Love. The same yeah, and it's. There's like things that keep popping up and I thought, well, if that's a choice that's made with melody, then that's straight in there, you's. So, although it could be deemed an arpeggio, you know, I'm just going to stick that fourth in, so, instead of just going, now it's it's not like a theory thing, it's more like a melody thing. Yeah, I've always tried to pull it back to that. Melody first.

Geoff: 12:04

Excellent what?

Geoff: 12:05

about your sound, your sound. Did you take your a while to get a good sound or was it? Is that driven by the kind of guitar that you play?

Nigel: 12:14

it's, it partly just is what it is, isn't it? I mean if you, you know, if you get, yeah, I mean if you were playing a Telecaster for something you wouldn't sound the same you wouldn't sound the same.

Nigel: 12:21

I wouldn't play a, wouldn't play a Telecaster yeah, no, I don't know, I might do nothing against Telecasters. No, no, but it's. I mean there's, that's quite a big question, but it, yeah, I mean that that also feeds into what. What do you want to be known? For yeah what do you, what do you want to be known for?

Nigel: 12:34

I mean I don't really go out and do anything else. You know, don't do rock gigs or country gigs or yeah, or many pop gigs. Yeah, you, I will do if someone pays me enough. Do you own a Telecaster? I do actually. Yeah, but I only own a Telecaster because Lorne Lofsky, the great guitar player, came over and I knew that he had a Telecaster, so I got it set up exactly how he wanted it, bought it just so he'd be happy. I do love Telecasters yeah. Yeah.

Geoff: 13:01

I do.

Nigel: 13:02

You hear Ted Green play it and oh yeah, no, of course of course, but for me I need something really wide, so you can sort of sit on your knee and just feel sort of like ergonomically they just fit in with your body.

Geoff: 13:12

Well, your guitar is gorgeous. What's that? A Fibonacci?

Nigel: 13:14

It's a Fibonacci Londoner. It's really nice. I designed it. Yeah Well asked what dimensions I wanted.

Geoff: 13:22

Fibonacci, that's an English company isn't it it? Is they build them in Worcester Park, wow that's handy.

Nigel: 13:27

It's the only UK jazz guitar company. is that right? There isn't another one.

Geoff: 13:32

It sounds very continental-o, doesn't it? It sounds kind of Well.

Geoff: 13:37

Is that?

Geoff: 13:37

deliberate, or is there a Mr Fibonacci?

Nigel: 13:39

Well, I helped design this pickup as well.

Geoff: 13:41

Did you?

Nigel: 13:42

It's a floating humbucker but it's got the same footprint as a full-size humbucker but it's floating.

Geoff: 13:49

Wow, and you just don't get those Incredible.

Nigel: 13:52

There's one guy in Germany called Boris Domengett who does one. There's one guy in Germany called Boris Domengett who does one, but I worked with a guy, funnily enough, in Gypsy Hill, just around the corner, isn't it? A guy called John Dickinson, and and we came up with this we, we figured out what wire they used to use in the old PAFs and all that. So it's, it's a real piece of work, yeah.

Geoff: 14:10

It is amazing. Yeah, but you can buy that guitar. Can you do the same as that somewhere? You could if you wanted to. Yes, okay.

Nigel: 14:16

If you had enough money.

Geoff: 14:19

And they're expensive. Yeah Well, they're over seven grand I think Are they. Right?

Nigel: 14:21

But back to the sound thing. I mean, actually it's not until you get a little bit older that sometimes I listen back to what I was doing in my 20s and I'm like, oh for God's sake, you know, it's.

Geoff: 14:33

So, in terms of practising, do you practise much? I mean, I know you're playing a lot, but do you practise?

Nigel: 14:38

Yeah, I practise about three hours every morning. I invented this thing. It was called the jazz wheel and the very first one was six standards, and then there's 12 groups of frets.

Geoff: 14:47

Yeah.

Nigel: 14:48

And so I had them lined up with whatever groups of frets Like I'd play All The Things You Are so randomising where you're playing, yeah.

Nigel: 14:54

Yeah, and then when I was happy with you know, when I felt comfortable, I'd just click the whole thing and then play the all the different standards in all the different groups, yeah, and so there's a very definite beginning and end to that and I could map it out and I could actually see how long it was going to take. Wow, I did the jazz wheel number two, which is 12 standards, and it just it was so exhausting but I did it. And then I started a third one and I actually bailed after about three months.

Geoff: 15:23

So I presume you were just playing with a click, or you were playing with a backing track or what.

Nigel: 15:28

Well, you know, when you first start off doing this voice leading thing, it's really hard to do it to a click because it's hard, yeah, and it took a little while, but having a click because it's hard.

Geoff: 15:36

Yeah, and it took a little while, but having a click puts a time pressure on it doesn't it?

Nigel: 15:39

Yeah, absolutely.

Geoff: 15:40

You know, if you're just sitting there and playing sort of out of time, then it's kind of not the same, is it?

Nigel: 15:46

No, you're right. I mean, I guess we're talking about time feel. And yeah, you know, I did have a metronome for a while, don't worry. Worry, I know the plug's coming up. No, it's fine it's fine. I had a wind up metronome and I used to wind it up.

Nigel: 16:02

Oh, one of those, those triangular ones everyone has on their piano yeah so, and you know, I'd wind it up twice and it would last about three hours, but I guess what we're building up to is talking about Playalongs, playalongs yes. And, of course you know, years ago you had the Jamey Aeber solds, which was all right.

Geoff: 16:22

It's okay if you had a good trio. Some of them were a bit patchy, weren't they? Yeah?

Nigel: 16:27

and it's you know. Get the needle on them, run back to the guitar. That was all right. I didn't have loads of them and they were expensive. And then, of course, the iReal book comes along and destroys.

Nigel: 16:41

Jamey.

Geoff: 16:41

Ae bersold's empire. You mean the app iReal.

Nigel: 16:43

You mean yeah, the iReal app yeah.

Nigel: 16:45

But of course it just sounds terrible. You know, it's just awful.

Geoff: 16:49

Yes.

Nigel: 16:50

And it's the most uninspirational thing. You'll get sick of it. You might become tired of your improvisation before it reaches the amount of choruses that you programmed, and that's no way to be. If you're improvising, getting sick of the noise that's coming out, I hate that. So what you've done with the Quartet apps is fantastic Not only that one, but the SessionB and before that because it just sounds brilliant and it just makes you feel like you're actually playing with people.

Geoff: 17:22

When I choose to go into performance mode at home. Yeah, I know you've done some, made some YouTube.

Nigel: 17:26

Um, yeah, movies, haven't you. Yeah, yeah, I mean I I just think it really, really deserves to be out there well, it's enormously helpful.

Geoff: 17:30

I'm really grateful for you to do that. I asked you about picking a tune to play along. So which track did you pick? All The Things You Are.

Nigel: 17:43

All The Things You Are, all the chords there are.

Geoff: 17:45

You were talking about playing in a particular area of the guitar. Yeah, if you could pick a few frets and try and play through the whole sequence just within those frets.

Nigel: 17:57

Do you mean, can I put my money where my mouth is?

Geoff: 17:59

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Nigel: 18:01

Yeah, maybe. Which group of frets do you want? Five to nine, maybe five to nine.

Geoff: 18:05

All right, yeah, all right. So we have an introduction. Let's, let's see how it goes. There we go, thank, you so?

Nigel: 20:14

do do Got away with it.

Geoff: 20:18

You certainly did, you certainly did.

Geoff: 20:20

Stanley

Nigel: 20:20

, I did creep out of the zone a couple of times there.

Geoff: 20:24

I saw your left hand just wanting to go and creep up.

Nigel: 20:27

I wanted to.

Geoff: 20:27

You stayed there. Yeah, how did that feel then, when you were boxed in, if you like.

Nigel: 20:38

Well, it just forces you to play certain positions. I could do the same thing in a different, in a different group of frets, and it would just feel, yeah, feel different.

Geoff: 20:42

But so, going back to the, to the practice apps, obviously there's piano and you can use different mixes. Yes, do you always just use the piano trio?

Nigel: 20:50

No, I've done a few things. I'm not sure if you've seen eventually where I just I just keep the bass and drums, right, I mean I would be interested to hear you play.

Geoff: 21:02

Would you be up for playing another?

Nigel: 21:04

chorus with just the bass and the drums. On what tune?

Geoff: 21:07

On the same tune. All right, okay, is that all right? Yeah, of course. Okay, let me just get the tune up and I'll flip it to the alternate mix, which will be the bass and drums.

Nigel: 22:29

All right, thank you. Thank you fantastic, that was so good.

Nigel: 23:24

I'd be more inclined to stick some chords in, I suppose there being a bit of space yeah, it's just, I mean, that was so good.

Geoff: 23:32

Yeah, just so much in this, of course.

Nigel: 23:35

Of course the other thing which you know, is that you can change the key, and I've made this quite an important part of it as well. I mean, maybe this is getting a bit nerdy, but like something, like All The Things You Are, it's a tune that was always going to be written. So it's an A flat, but all of the key centers are just built around uh, a flat major seven.

Nigel: 24:01

So the first one's a flat and then the next one's a third is c and the next one's e flat, next one's g yeah and so they never thought of that, you know.

Nigel: 24:08

So then you've just got six uh uh of a flat uh, and then two of a flat, five of A flat, and then 2 of A flat, 5 of A flat, 1, 4, and then we've just got 5 into the 3rd, and then we're doing the same thing 6, 6 of E flat, which is the 5. 2, 5 of 2, sorry, 5 of E flat, and then the last one is going to be 5 into the major 7, which is G major. Two, five into that, and then it looks like we're going minor but we're going major, major, yeah, and then we're just fiving back into the original formula. So two, six, five, one. And then there's this thing we were doing a gypsy gig and someone shouted horse at me and I was like what the hell are you talking about?

Nigel: 24:59

I asked him afterwards. He said it's the old war horse. It's four, four minor three diminished on minor third, two, five, one. That's called horse is it Apparently in certain circles.

Geoff: 25:14

So that is an ending, a common kind of ending for a tune as well, isn't it?

Geoff: 25:17

Well, I guess. So A horse ending.

Geoff: 25:18

Yeah.

Nigel: 25:24

With all that in mind, if you really understand the theory behind it, then there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to play All The Things You Are in any key at the drop of a hat.

Geoff: 25:32

By numbers, I suppose One, six, two, five, one. I've got a few questions just to finish off. Go on, that's all right, of course. Would you have a favourite album or an album that you could say was a favourite?

Nigel: 25:49

I think Wes Montgomery's Full House takes a lot of beating. You know, there's just such a great vibe on that and there's people who are like whooping mid-solo and everyone plays so well on it, like Johnny Griffin's on fire and and Wes you know he's. He's got a totally different thing to everyone else, but he's, he just delivers it with such. He's just so strong and every, every tune's an absolute belter.

Geoff: 26:11

Is there a favourite musician, alive or dead, that you would like to play with

Nigel: 26:16

God?

Nigel: 26:17

You know, I've never been asked that before. Really, I mean, there's a lot of musicians that I admire. Are we talking about guitarists here? No no, any musician. I don't know if I've got an answer. Really, I just think everyone's got something to bring. Some people they're so easy to play with. There's some people that aren't really known around the wider world that I find amazing to play with and by the same token. I can play with other people that have got a big name and it's a little bit clunky between us.

Geoff: 26:48

You know, there's nothing wrong with either of us. I guess that's because everyone feels time differently, don't they

Nigel: 26:53

Exactly.

Nigel: 26:55

And we have different tastes as well. You know, Some people don't want to swing and some people absolutely love it Great.

Geoff: 27:04

Do you think you've had a highlight of your career so far?

Nigel: 27:07

I'll tell you, what sprung into my mind straight away was selling out Ronnie Scott's twice in one night and we did the Wes Reimagined album with the strings, wow. And it was right in the middle of a big tour and we'd gone everywhere. We got right to Aberdeen, right down to St Ives, everywhere in between, huge, whopping, great tour. But I remember it was in the second set and and I just said you know it's, it's, it's. You know we put in, we worked so hard at this and we've been all all around the all around the country, but it's great to come back to London and get this doesn't reception.

Geoff: 27:36

It doesn't get any better than that this kind of reception, and I cried yeah, I wept openly on stage. I've had many moments where I cried on stage but we won't talk about me.

Nigel: 27:45

Great, so I mean yeah, that was good, but to be honest, I don't really mind just as long as you're in a room full of people who are loving it, that you went to. No, this is terrible, isn't it? I don't really go out much. I went to see Peter Bernstein and Jim Mullen together.

Geoff: 28:02

I was there actually in the 606.

Nigel: 28:04

And I thought that was the best thing I've ever seen in my life. I thought they were great yeah, I was there for the very first one that they did and that was really exciting. But somehow they I'm not saying they calmed down at all, but but somehow they I'm not saying they calmed down at all, but they sort of had the measure of each other and it just felt like it gelled more than that first one, and I thought it was absolutely brilliant.

Geoff: 28:24

Jim Mullen is. He's the kind of backbone of this country's jazz scene as far as I'm concerned. You know he gave me my first start. I used to play with his quartet. You know, when I first started he was always so supportive.

Nigel: 28:38

I've got one of those albums actually.

Geoff: 28:39

Yeah, I mean, he would just always get people to sit in, and he's such a gentleman, well, he also had a huge effect on me.

Nigel: 28:47

Actually, I used to go and see him. You know that was some of the first gigs that I went to see. The first time I ever went to 606 was to see Jim, and I asked him for lessons years ago and. I'm going to. I'm going to stop myself from doing my Jim Mullen impression right now. I'm not going to do it, no matter how much you ask me, but um.

Nigel: 29:05

I asked you three times no, no go on, go on.

Geoff: 29:14

It was a Jim Mullen quote what are you starting now?

Nigel: 29:17

um, I basically asked him for lessons and he said no yeah and uh, and he said look, he said, um, I think it's far more interesting when someone's worked out for themselves, yeah, yeah, and that just on its own not only saved me a fortune on guitar lessons, but it meant the world to me and I thought of course, of course.

Nigel: 29:34

you know I'm watching this unique voice. Yeah, you know the greatest jazz guitarist I've ever seen and he's got his own thing. And of course you should go out and get your own thing, because if you're always taking it off somewhere else, somewhere else and someone else, then you're always going to be feeling that you're.

Geoff: 29:49

Yeah, I did an album with him years ago called Pop Bop Right, which was a quartet with him on guitar, and what I remember about him was turning up at the studio no amp on the train, plugged his guitar straight into the mixing desk and it sounded great. Right, and it's just. It's Jim, it's amazing.

Nigel: 30:10

Yeah, he's incredible. We love you, Jim. Incredible.

Geoff: 30:12

Yeah, okay. What would you say was your musical weakness?

Nigel: 30:17

My reading isn't very good. Right, it's well. I mean, you know how I started out. You know, when everyone else was at college I was going up and down mountains with a gun. You know, and I've really, really tried and I put time out. I mean I'm not. You know I'm sure there's people that are worse readers than me. You know I do do some reading gigs, but you know I'm sure there's people that are worse readers than me. You know I do do some reading kicks, but it's always hackles are up.

Geoff: 30:42

You know, I'm looking, I'm looking at that. That's quite common with guitarists, though, isn't it? It's a guitarist disease.

Nigel: 30:46

Yeah, but there are some great readers out there absolutely brilliant. But sometimes I'm like looking at the fire exit going oh my god, yeah, yeah you know it's, uh, you know, especially with like when the chords come up it. You know this is that's out of my way, out of my comfort zone.

Geoff: 31:01

Yep.

Nigel: 31:01

But in a way that's um, that kind of forms you Um. I remember being asked if I could do a West End show in the early nineties and I and I said I don't really read, and the guy said that's a thousand quid a week, you know yeah and I was absolutely crestfallen, but then actually in hindsight um, it's, you know, I can play complex stuff but maybe I just can't read it.

Nigel: 31:27

Yeah, so I've ended up becoming, um, you're like forming my own band and so giving, giving the horrendous stuff to the people to the sidemen. Or, as I heard a little phrase the other day, a bad reader, great leader, I like.

Geoff: 31:39

I like that. I like that.

Nigel: 31:42

So you know, it kind of forms you and maybe if I had gone to the West End, maybe I'd still be in the West End.

Geoff: 31:46

Yeah, do you? Or did you ever get nervous on stage?

Nigel: 31:50

Yeah, I still do, especially when it's like you know, when it's quite a big stage and you're in the wings and it's like you've just got to go up and face the whole situation with your musicality and hope that what you've been doing is going to work out.

Geoff: 32:03

Yeah, well, the thing about jazz musicians is that they can always resolve a note. They play a wrong note and you can only move it and it's… yeah, whatever. And you've played the right note, because you're never going to be more than a semitone away from a note that sounds good, right.

Nigel: 32:18

Well, yeah in theory, yeah In theory.

Geoff: 32:20

Yeah, excellent. Do you have a?

Geoff: 32:23

favourite sandwich

Nigel: 32:25

Sandwich. Oh, you've asked me at the right time because I'm really hungry.

Geoff: 32:29

I'll make you one after this.

Nigel: 32:32

I like the roast chicken stuffing sandwiches. Oh, you know like those. But I would say in my life I've probably eaten more tuna sandwiches than anything else. What about a favourite movie? I've seen Jaws 47 times. Really. Yeah, 47, yeah, and every time it comes on I think I cannot watch this again, you know, and it's like I'll just watch to that bit, you know.

Geoff: 32:56

And it's gonna need a bigger boat.

Nigel: 32:59

I know the whole thing, I know every line, but every scene moves into the next scene, so well and it's just so like the pace of it. It's like a great jazz solo or something. It's amazing.

Geoff: 33:09

Even though it's a rubber shark. Yeah, what about a favourite country, city or somewhere you play abroad?

Nigel: 33:15

I love Italy.

Nigel: 33:16

I love it. I love Italy. I love it. My family have got connections out there.

Nigel: 33:20

I don't get out there enough.

Nigel: 33:22

There was a time when I used to spend a lot of, used to do a load of gigs out there and I think I put on about three stone. Never lost it. The food's amazing, the place is beautiful, the people are great, yeah, and it kind of feels like home.

Geoff: 33:37

I agree with you. And finally have you got a favourite chord?

Nigel: 33:42

If anyone ever asks me for a photo, I'll play this one. This is the chord of doom. You have to see it, really you do. It's not really how it sounds, it's how it looks.

Geoff: 33:55

And that is. Let me take a picture. I think it's a John.

Nigel: 33:58

McLaughlin chord. And that is. Let me take a picture. I think it's a John McLaughlin chord. That's not a bad one. Yeah, that's a bit of a finger breaker.

Geoff: 34:12

Amazing. What are you doing at the moment? What are you working on at the moment?

Nigel: 34:17

Well, I'm just getting the music together for this album that's coming up with Ross Stanley and Joel Barford moment. Well, I'm just getting the music together for this, uh, this album that's coming up, um, with, uh, Ross Stanley and Joel Barford, and Joel's got this knack of just of naming an album before it's happened. And, um, I was saying that you know I was going to get the tour together and he went you know you have to kind of see this, but you went, It's On, and so the album's called It's On, it's on, um, and uh, yeah, so I, yeah, so I've written it all already.

Geoff: 34:41

What's your process for composing? That's another thing I was going to ask you and I never did.

Nigel: 34:45

I have done a lot of contrafacts. I know you have as well, and it's….

Geoff: 34:51

That's just for everyone to know. You use an existing chord sequence and you write a new melody

Nigel: 34:56

Exactly exactly.

Nigel: 35:00

I've done one for the new album based on uh Gee Baby, Ain't I Good To You. I've called it Splash The Cash, like sometimes the names come first. I I once did one on um Slow Boat to China. We called it Junk. So you know it's. It's kind of a nice way of working because you know where the goalposts are. You know, you know pretty much what the form. A nice way of working because you know where the goalposts are, you know.

Geoff: 35:20

You know pretty much what the form is. Once you get to the blowing, you're all comfortable, aren't you? Well?

Nigel: 35:22

exactly I mean, you know there is that too, yeah, but sometimes they just they come along and I don't really know where they come from. I mean, I've spent years learning, well, learning as many standards as I can. I suppose, and I think you know, it's possible for one to start composing before one is ready, because you know what I ?

Geoff: 35:46

Well, composing is like practice, isn't it? I mean, I've done a lot of it, so, gradually, I can do it faster and I'm better at it, you know. But I know people do struggle. Yeah, if they haven't done it, it's you know. Where do we start? What's the tools? What's the process?

Nigel: 36:01

Almost the worst way is to try and force it. You know, sometimes I'll say, right, I'm going to write something really great, really clever. Before you know it you're trying to put all the really sort of interesting cool tones over something and you just come up with something that sounds like really dodgy fusion or something.

Nigel: 36:17

But the way it happens with me quickest is that I I usually look at the band you know my trio and just go yeah right, we need something like this and my brain says something like what, and I go like this and it just goes and just comes out almost immediately. Right, you know, it's got a feel in mind and it's, and I'm thinking about it's only a small band and that it just sparks off things for me, but I don't write anything particularly hard.

Geoff: 36:44

Do you write when you don't have an album in mind?

Nigel: 36:47

I think it's a frame of mind and I use that for practising as well. Like, sometimes, I just kind of just get into this zone where I can imagine being on the stage and actually playing and suddenly, personally, I feel that I'm coming out with stuff that I can almost feel like I'm there and I can use it, and you know, whatever I'm doing and I feel the same about composition, I actually feel that I'm there. Oh, this would be great if this happened on the stage. You know, and it just sort of comes out.

Geoff: 37:16

Yeah, all right. Well, that will wrap it up, I think, okay. Thank you so much for your time.

Nigel: 37:21

It's an absolute pleasure. You know, no one ever talks to me about jazz. Oh, I love it. That's great. I know you do, I know You're an enthusiast yeah.

Announcement: 37:38

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