Geoff: 0:01

Hello again, podcats. Today I'm in Hertfordshire and I'm going to see a very, very old friend of mine who I played with for many, many years in the Georgie Fame Band. His name is Alan Skidmore, tenor saxophone player, and we're going to chat all about where he is now in his life, looking back on a career that spans nearly 70 years. I'm looking forward to chatting with him. So here we go.

Announcement: 0:45

The Quartet Jazz Standards podcast is brought to you by the Quartet app for iOS, taking your jazz play along to another level.

Geoff: 0:53

So here we are, Skid. How are you feeling today?

Alan: 0:57

Well, I'm feeling my age a little bit nowadays, Geoff. You know, nothing I can do about that.

Geoff: 1:04

How old are you now? If you don't mind me asking uh, I'm 83 next month Congratulations, uh, now, we've known each other a long time. We played in Georgie Fame's band together, didn't we for? Uh, quite a while I was in it for 12 years, I think, 13 years. How long were you in that for.

Alan: 1:19

Over 50 over 50 years yeah, that's amazing. I mean, you know I did a multitude of other things as well at the time. You know I did a load of work in Europe and around the place with all kinds of European groups European jazz quintet, European jazz ensemble the list is astonishing. There's so many groups big bands.

Geoff: 1:46

So how did you get started then? Because I know your dad was a saxophone player, wasn't he?

Alan: 1:50

I didn't really want to play the saxophone. Actually when I left school at 15, I had no qualifications at all. I'd failed everything and I had a couple of really dodgy day jobs, one in a suit shop where I thought, oh yeah, it'd be nice to sell a suit to someone. All I got was knob make the tea Knob sweep up, that's what they called you.

Geoff: 2:19

They called you knob.

Alan: 2:22

So I'm on the bus on the way home one day for my 13th birthday I'm 15 now, right at this time, and for my 13th birthday my dad gave me a tenor which went straight underneath my bed and forgotten about. So I'm on my way home on the bus one day, having done this very dodgy day job, thinking I might try that thing under my bed. Give that a go, try it, because I really can't stand what, what I'm doing at the moment. Right, you know. So he said right, okay, you want to? Yeah, and he showed me how to put it together and how to put a reed on and he shut me in my bedroom.

Geoff: 3:02

He made me practice for hours on end, every day, and every time I stopped he paid me, so he was a saxophone player, so he was out gigging and stuff while you were at home, was he?

Alan: 3:13

Yeah, yeah, right, yeah, okay did he give you some help. He showed me how you play a scale, a major scale, and then he said there's 12 of them. That's what you've got to do. You've got to do, you've got to learn all them first and at the same time you've got to play long notes to develop a decent sound.

Geoff: 3:32

Okay.

Alan: 3:38

You know, and of course I didn't think about it at the time but ever since I was a young kid of five or six there was jazz playing in the house. Yeah, you know all kinds of Lester Young and Coleman Hawkins and all that. So I don't know whether that kind of entered me. Anyway, it was a pain in the arse practicing all the time watching my mates in the street playing football.

Geoff: 4:01

Right.

Alan: 4:01

Anyway, I was upstairs in my room, I played long notes and I learned my scales, and the rest is history. Every time I had chops started to hurt, he would make me go downstairs and listen to something. Wow. And what I would listen to was albums that he had acquired over the years of people like Paul Gonsalves, Dexter Gordon, Sonny Rollins and all that.

Geoff: 4:29

So Was he quite a hard taskmaster, your dad. What was your relationship like with him?

Alan: 4:33

He did make me practice. He made me, he forced me into practicing.

Geoff: 4:38

Okay, and when you're 15, that's not easy, is it?

Alan: 4:41

I turned professional when I was about 16. It's not easy, is it? I turned professional when I was about 16. And what I used to do was, once I'd passed my test my driving test I used to drive my dad to all kinds of gigs. Wow when he was a guest with a local rhythm section.

Geoff: 4:58

Right.

Alan: 4:59

And of course he would let me sit in and of course I didn't play that good, but it was a big help.

Geoff: 5:05

Gave you confidence.

Alan: 5:05

I suppose I didn't play that good, but it was a big help. Gave you confidence, I suppose, didn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, he was a good teacher in a way, but I used to drive him everywhere so that he could get well and truly out of it. Is that?

Geoff: 5:15

right. How did you feel about that? Were you resentful of it?

Alan: 5:17

at all. No, I love driving. As it happened, you do love driving. I still do.

Geoff: 5:25

Yeah, you're love driving. I know that. Yeah, you're wearing your silverstone hat. Yes, yeah. So how did you learn about improvising? Did you study any books or did you do any transcribing or anything like that?

Alan: 5:30

No, I just listened a lot, because my father had a an amazing, uh collection of jazz records. So that's that's how I. I kind of played along with Dexter Gordon and other people.

Geoff: 5:48

So you never wrote anything down or read anything?

Alan: 5:51

No, he bought me a book called the Universal Method for the Saxophone.

Geoff: 5:55

Wow.

Alan: 5:56

Which I kind of went through, Because once you've learned all your major scales, you've got to learn all the minor scales, all the diminished scales, augmented whole tones.

Geoff: 6:06

But there's a lot more to it than just scales, isn't there? Absolutely, you know yeah. And then, of course, the thing you learn is phrasing, playing with feeling, as it were. Well, if you're imitating those greats, then that's one of the things that you pick up, isn't it?

Alan: 6:23

John Coltrane is the greatest saxophone player I've ever heard in my life.

Geoff: 6:27

When did you first hear him?

Alan: 6:28

I think it was 1961 when he came to this country. Wow, My dad took me to a concert in Walthamstow, but he went to see the Dizzy Gillespie Group which was in the second half of the concert.

Geoff: 6:49

Yeah.

Alan: 6:54

But the first half of the concert was Coltrane's quintet with Eric Dolphy. Wow, Elvin Jones.

Geoff: 6:57

So you would have been what 20 by then.

Alan: 7:00

I was 1961, I was 19.

Geoff: 7:03

19. Wow. So you remember that first experience of seeing him, do you, yeah, he. I was 19. 19. Wow. So you remember that first experience of seeing him, do you?

Alan: 7:08

Yeah, he only played one tune for the whole hour, which was I never heard him in the flesh play the tenor. It was. He played My Favourite Things for an hour on the soprano, of course, wow, and that was the only thing he played on the concert that lasted an hour. That's crazy. That was it, yeah, but I knew somehow that what I was listening to was something special and I didn't know what it was that was special

Geoff: 7:38

Did you understand what he was playing?

Geoff: 7:40

Did you understand the, the methods of jazz by this point or?

Alan: 7:43

not, not that much. I just kind of thought, oh, that's good.

Alan: 7:50

That sounds good.

Alan: 7:52

And I don't know why. I thought it's. If you understand me, I don't. And then, of course, one thing led to another and I became a great, huge fan of Coltrane over the years. I can honestly say that I've never, ever tried to copy him, but I have been influenced by him. That's what it is, you know. And the funny thing is like later on in life I find out that one of his biggest influences was Dexter Gordon, and, of course, Dexter Gordon was one of my biggest influences in the early days.

Geoff: 8:28

It's a lineage, isn't it?

Geoff: 8:30

Everyone's got you can see a path.

Geoff: 8:32

Is that the only time you saw Coltrane play? Yeah?

Alan: 8:35

in the flesh. Wow, yeah. Yeah, it is. Because he got such a bad press from the Melody Maker.

Geoff: 8:42

Because he was going quite avant-garde in the 60s, wasn't he? Oh, yeah, yeah.

Alan: 8:45

Well, 60, 64, 63, 64, 65.

Geoff: 8:51

Yeah.

Alan: 8:51

That period. Yeah, Love Supreme and Sun Ship and all those kind of albums.

Geoff: 8:59

They're difficult records, those aren't they? Yeah, they really are.

Alan: 9:01

Yeah, and of course, all those years later in the 80s, I get a call from Elvin Jones.

Geoff: 9:09

That's right, yeah.

Alan: 9:09

Could I do two weeks with him? At Ronnie Scott's Wow, I said, oh, hang on, I'll just see if I can. I'll just check. I'll just check.

Geoff: 9:19

What was it?

Geoff: 9:19

like playing with Elvin.

Alan: 9:20

It was just the most amazing experience, because I can tell you absolute truth, he was such a lovely person yeah, an unbelievable, nice, genuine, decent guy. He was really lovely.

Geoff: 9:36

I remember playing opposite him quite a few times in Ronnie's with small groups supporting them, you know, I mean I was such a huge fan and that was my thing. I really wanted to play with Elvin. One night I plucked up enough courage to say, can I sit in with the band, you know? And he said he was up for it. He said yeah, of course you know. And then his wife said no, no, no, no, we don't do that. Oh, wow, and I watched him every night, just the intensity of the way he plays was just.

Alan: 10:05

Well, on the box set that came out there's just the one track. Yeah, somebody recorded sitting in the front of the stage. Oh right, yeah.

Geoff: 10:15

Was it last year that you released this? Yes, Six CDs. Was it this? Yes? Six CDs was it Six, Six CDs yeah, An anthology of your career. Really a lot of the highlights.

Alan: 10:23

And it was voted box set of the year in New York. Amazing yeah, came first above Mingus and Pharaoh Sanders.

Geoff: 10:32

Fabulous, yeah, and I'm on it as well. You are, I'm on it, yeah, you are, yeah, fantastic, right. So have you ever done any teaching?

Alan: 10:42

Only sort of summer schools, Barry in South Wales. I did that for a few years running when the head teacher at that period of time was Tony Oxley. He's one of the greatest drummers I've ever played with, for sure. Oh the funny thing, this is a true story, Geoff. One night I'm sitting in dressing room at the back of Ronnie's, behind the stage, you know, and I said to Elvin, I said you know, Elvin, you're most jazz drummer's favourite drummer. Who is your favourite drummer? And he said in a flash Tony Oxley. He must have heard him in the club at some time or another. Maybe Tony had been working in the band opposite him on one of his trips to the club in Frith Street.

Geoff: 11:28

I was going to ask you about practising, but you said you don't really do much practising, do you No? Now, no, is that a physical thing? That's the strength or something I just don't fancy it.

Alan: 11:40

I've done 65 years on the road, I've got half a dozen passports that are almost full up and, as I said, you know, 83 next month and I don't want to practice

Geoff: 11:55

Just enjoy your retirement?

Geoff: 11:56

I suppose yeah, yeah, I suppose yeah. Let me tell you a little bit about my apps. A couple of years ago I made two volumes of what I called Quartet, Quartet 1 and Quartet 2. Each volume has 150 standards on it, recorded by real musicians, a trio plus a soloist, which you can choose. To have a soloist, you can choose to have a soloist. You can choose to have different mixes, so you can have piano, bass, drums. You can have bass and drums, you can have piano and bass yeah, yeah um, but it's multi-tracked so you can choose which combination you want.

Geoff: 12:33

There's 150 tunes in each in the first two volumes, all the essential standards that you'd ever want to learn. You know, from Autumn Leaves to All The Things You Are, to Giant Steps, to Blues and everything, everything you need. We're getting people to play along with them. You realize when you hear it, it's a brilliant tool for practicing. So you can change the key, you can change the tempo yeah so I asked you when you came in what tune you'd like to play.

Alan: 12:58

I said because I haven't picked it up for such a long time. I said any chance of playing a blues, Play a blues, yeah.

Geoff: 13:06

Yeah, okay.

Alan: 13:07

So you know that'll suit me.

Geoff: 13:11

So we're going to play a blues in E flat right. Concert, e flat Okay, which is, and then we'll talk about the improvising process afterwards. Okay, do you want to stick your headphones on All?

Geoff: 13:33

guitar solo. That's great.

Geoff: 14:24

How was that? I don't know. It was great. That was great. How was that?

Alan: 14:31

I don't know.

Geoff: 14:32

It was great. That was great, was it? Yeah, it was killing, all right. So obviously that's what's interesting about that. That's a 1-4-5 blues, isn't it? Is there anything different that you're playing when you play a 1-4-5?

Alan: 14:43

blues In the early 60s, the first half of the 60s, I played with two groups, one of which was with the Alexis Korner's Blues Incorporated right, and of course that in those days was that a jazz group or was it? It was it was it was a great group. Yeah, it was Alexis on guitar, voice, Danny Thompson on bass, Terry Cox on drums, Chris Pine on trombone and myself on tenor and everything we played was a 5-4-1. Right. But some of them were like very, very slow One, two, three, four, that kind of tempo. Right, and of course that was a great learning curve. Yeah, of tempo Right, and of course that was a great learning curve yeah.

Alan: 15:31

And then I was called to do a record session with John Mayall. It's the one where they're looking at the Beano on the front of the album

Geoff: 15:43

Beano

Geoff: 15:43

the comic.

Alan: 15:44

Yeah, that's right.

Geoff: 15:45

Yeah, and I played the introduction to a piece called Have You Heard, which was a blues. But many, many, many years later, when I was touring Europe with a group, a trio with Tony Oxley and Ali Howrand, that was called SOH, and we shared a couple of gigs with Michael Brecker's group and I'd already worked with a guy called Peter Erskine who's the drummer, and we're checking into a hotel and he comes home and says, ah, great to see you, di good and all that you know, hugs and things you know. He said do you know Michael? I said no, I said but I'd like to meet him and he was at the desk signing in to the hotel and he took me over. We shook hands. He said you're Alan Skidmore and I said yeah, I'm sorry, I was afraid so. And he said well, I have to say thank you to you because it was you that I heard playing a solo with John Mayall that made me want to play the saxophone.

Geoff: 16:53

Whoa, that's amazing.

Geoff: 16:54

That's a true story. That's fantastic. And I swear to God, Geoff, if the ground could have opened up, I would have willingly fell into the hole because I didn't know what to say you know, wow, what can you say?

Geoff: 17:06

That's amazing.

Alan: 17:07

And so we were able to have a nice chat later on. He's a really nice guy and, of course, an absolutely magnificent tenor saxophone player Incredible yeah. One of the greatest. For him to say that to me was a huge compliment, amazing.

Geoff: 17:26

So when you're playing that 1-4-5 blues, would you play that slightly different if the rhythm section weren't playing 1-4-5 blues? Would you play that slightly different if the rhythm section weren't playing 1-4-5?

Alan: 17:32

Oh no, you can take liberties, you can free it up If you're really tearing it apart. There's all kinds of things you could do, but I just particularly like.

Geoff: 17:44

I was going to ask you as well do you ever use lip?

Alan: 17:48

Subliminally. Maybe you as well do you ever use, use lip subliminally? Maybe there's been, uh, this, this blues. You know, Train composed an amazing amount of fantastic blues.

Geoff: 17:59

He really did yeah, well, what you just played then was you were kind of composing your own blues, really, weren't you in the same kind of way?

Alan: 18:06

just when you're improvising. You know you, you know all about that. Yeah, from playing the bass, of course.

Geoff: 18:11

Yeah.

Alan: 18:12

You know we spent many years together with Georgie Fame. we We did we did, who, in my opinion, is one of the greatest singers I've ever heard in my life. Yeah, I agree, you know, absolutely. You know. Only the other night I was The listening to the Birthday Big Band. Oh, that was a great record and it's a fantastic record.

Geoff: 18:32

We did that. Yeah, it was a double the London Town and Country Club, didn't we? Yeah?

Alan: 18:37

Yeah, that was amazing. That's right, you can put things up a semitone. You know what I'm saying. Of course you do and tear it apart and make it sound somehow, right, yeah.

Geoff: 18:55

I've got a couple of last questions before we finish. All right, if that's all right, yeah. Do you have a favourite album? I can probably guess what it might be, but have you ever? If you had to pick one. Well, there's so many.

Alan: 19:06

Yeah, I don't actually have a favourite. There's so many. Yeah, I don't actually have a favourite. I suppose the first time I ever heard Chasin' The Trane at Village Vanguard was a real lesson and it took me quite a while. You know, many, many, many years ago, when I was in my 20s, it took me a long time to figure out that it was a blues actually. And then a friend of mine I said how many choruses does he play? Because no one else plays a solo. He plays the theme and the solo and the theme, yeah, at the end, and he plays 81 choruses.

Alan: 19:47

wow and um, and it took me a while to figure out that it was it's a blues in F concert yeah wow, I can play it for you. What you can play the, I can play the tune go on then, and he plays one chorus of it at the beginning.

Geoff: 20:18

Yeah.

Alan: 20:18

And then I think, at the end I think he's forgotten. He's forgotten how the tune goes. How the tune went, yeah.

Geoff: 20:26

All right. So what was the last concert you went to? You saw? I mean, we've already talked about you seeing Coltrane. I mean that kind of covers, it doesn't it?

Alan: 20:35

Well, I just saw him the once.

Geoff: 20:37

Were there any other great concerts that you saw in the early days?

Alan: 20:42

A lot of the great musicians and things that I've heard and witnessed has been at Ronnie's.

Alan: 20:49

Yeah that I've heard and witnessed has been at Ronnie's. Yeah, you know, in the second half of the 60s I had two jobs. I had one job in the daytime working with the BBC Radio Orchestra, and then in the evening I was working at the Talk of the Town with a quartet for dancing, dance music, and in the break I used to hoof it as fast as I could round to Ronnie's and go downstairs and sit with Sonny Rollins, talking. We had some fantastic conversations and we kept in touch and I've got some lovely cards and letters and messages at home that he sent me over the years. I mean, Ronnie's was great. So many wonderful musicians played there from America, amazing, amazing.

Geoff: 21:41

Okay, here's a question that I've had some interesting replies for. What do you think your musical weakness might be?

Alan: 21:50

I don't know, maybe reading.

Geoff: 21:53

Reading. Yeah, I mean.

Alan: 21:54

I can read music, but…. Sight reading, sight reading. Yeah, because I used to. In the 60s and 70s I also used to do a lot of sessions with the Beatles and all that kind of thing. God knows how many Did you play with the Beatles? Did you record of thing? God knows how many.

Geoff: 22:11

Did you play with the Beatles? Did you record with them?

Alan: 22:13

Yeah, I did. Ronnie Scott was in the band and Ronnie Ross was on the baritone section.

Geoff: 22:22

Which album or tracks did you do with the Beatles?

Alan: 22:24

I can't really remember Geoff, but all I do remember is being in the studio. I mean it could be, uh, I don't know. Is that on Sgt Pepper's? I've got a feeling it was something to do with the Sgt Pepper's thing. To be quite honest with you, I'm busking a bit here because I can't remember.

Geoff: 22:49

Wow, we're talking about early 60s, second half the 60s, doing just sessions, getting a call from a fixer to come along and just showing up and doing it and then going off to the next one, yeah, 10 to 1, 2 to 5 and all that kind of thing which I'm sure you've I kind of came in on the end of it, but I did a little taste of that Perfect Do you ever get nervous on stage.

Alan: 23:15

Sometimes I get a bit nervous, you know, just before the gig perhaps. But I'm normally okay once I'm into it and I've started, you know, and if it's a good rhythm section. And of course over the years I've done lots of gigs with house rhythm sections, which sometimes is a bit hard.

Geoff: 23:40

You have to imagine who you're playing with. A good one, don't you? Yeah, shut your eyes.

Alan: 23:45

But I've never given them a hard time, because if you give them a hard time, they're going to play worse. Yeah, that's, true you want to get the best out of musicians, don't you? If you encourage them in the interval, you could say you're doing great guys. Yeah absolutely, and then in the second half they can sometimes be better than they were in the first half. That's a good point actually that's a good lesson. Actually, isn't it for people Better than they were in the first half? That's a good point actually.

Geoff: 24:10

That's a good lesson, actually, isn't it? For people Compliment. Yeah, I've got a few more silly questions, if that's all right.

Geoff: 24:15

What's your favourite?

Geoff: 24:17

sandwich.

Alan: 24:17

Oh crikey.

Alan: 24:18

I don't know, do I have?

Alan: 24:21

a favourite sandwich Cheese, cheese sandwich, cheese sandwich, you can't go wrong with a cheese sandwich. Can you A bit of tomato?

Alan: 24:32

yeah, yeah, favorite, you got a favorite movie uh, Psycho, wow, I loved I thought that was, I thought that was fantastic. Apollo 13 okay, lovely, fantastic. I'm a great fan of, uh, that guy, Tom Hanks, Tom Hanks yeah, that's it, thank you.

Geoff: 24:46

Is there a favorite country or favorite city you you like to visit?

Alan: 24:50

I played a lot in Switzerland. Every country in Europe, really, yeah, New York.

Alan: 24:57

I like, of course, yes, very much.

Geoff: 24:59

Yeah.

Alan: 24:59

I've always had a good time there. Philadelphia I played, and Boston, New York, Washington.

Geoff: 25:06

And finally, one last silly question for you what's your favourite chord?

Alan: 25:12

I don't know. G major seventh. No, I don't have a favourite chord.

Geoff: 25:19

It does make people think, though I've had a whole mixture of different replies to that one.

Alan: 25:24

Yeah, I'll bet you have.

Geoff: 25:26

Major or minor, I do like minor, yeah, okay.

Alan: 25:28

Well, I think that will do. I do like minor.

Alan: 25:30

Yeah, okay, yeah Okay.

Geoff: 25:30

Well, I think that will do it. I think yeah. Thanks so much for making time to come and talk to us, my pleasure. Absolutely. Thank you for asking me. So great to see you again.

Announcement: 25:40

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