Geoff: 0:04

Well, it's a beautiful autumn morning. And today I'm on my way to Ruislip to speak to a bass player, actually. Mr. Dave Green. So we're gonna have a little chat all about his days at Ronnie Scott's and playing with some absolute legends of the world's jazz scene. All these great people. Plus Charlie Watts, of course, who he grew up with. So here we go.

Announcement: 0:48

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Geoff: 0:58

You must have had some um bad rental bases over the years, right?

Dave: 1:01

Probably did. You did the same thing, you know. You you take your own bass when I when I started touring years ago. But before that, when I when I joined Humph in 65, my first tour with Humph in Germany was 66. Well, I didn't have a flight case, I just had a soft case and used to go and just go inside the hold, you know. It was a nightmare.

Geoff: 1:21

I mean, what's your opinion about playing rented bases? Do you do you spend a bit of time with them or do you just play them as they are?

Dave: 1:27

Nine times out of ten, it's fine. But there's been a over the years, there's been a couple of times when, notably when I did North Sea Festival, I did a tour with Benny Carter over here, might have been '84 or something like that. It was a lovely tour with Herb Ellis, it's fantastic. Later on, I got a a message from Benny's agent in New York. Could I do the North Sea Festival with it? I asked them to get me a bass, thinking North Sea Jazz Festival was going to be a good bass, right? It was terrible. It was like a cheap, school bass, you know. It was the worst bass that you can imagine. And I'm playing with Benny Carter. It was the most embarrassing gig I've ever done with a great like Benny Carter. Like with Scott. I did Moscow with Scott. The bass was hard, but I managed to play, you know. I managed to do the gig, and I was apologizing to Scott and the High School. And Scott said, Oh, it sounds all right, you know, it sounds like you, you know.

Geoff: 2:17

But you don't feel like it's you?

Dave: 2:19

I was getting something out of it, sort of 50% out of it, you know.

Geoff: 2:22

But that's the thing about rental bases, though, isn't it? Yeah. There's areas that you can't play, there's notes that don't ring.

Dave: 2:28

Yeah, but it's a freedom, it's a freedom of playing it, isn't it? You know, the freedom of like you can play. Going going way back when I first started, it I bought an old English bass from Harvey Weston, which I met at a very early age because you know, when I started out. Yeah. The tea chest bass. And he had a real bass. He was in a sort of similar kind of band, similar group, the skiffle group, but more advanced than we were. I was 13, 14 years old, yeah.

Geoff: 2:53

So hold on a second, just tell me what a tea chest bass is?

Dave: 2:56

A tea chest was a big old tea chest with a broom handle and a piece of string. This was the the Skiffle craze in the late 50s. Guys like Lonnie Donegan and Chris Barber was on bass, you know. Because I later joined, I, I joined Chris you know, 50 years later I joined his band. Yeah.

Geoff: 3:13

Why did you start playing the tea chess bass?

Dave: 3:15

Well, because it was it was fun, you know. I and I was I was interested in jazz, and I grew up with Charlie. Charlie Watts was my next door neighbour. We started getting into jazz together. Like from very early age, I started listening to Glenn Miller's band when I was about 10 or 11 on the radio. Right. So he liked the drums and I liked the bass, and that was that was it. I remember I bought a record of uh Louis's band with I was sure, and he played the thing called Blues for Bass. So I was into listening to the bass anyway. So when it came to this skiffle thing, so I was going to be the bass player. It was hugely popular. Lonnie Donegan did that thing Rock Island Line, which is a massive hit. And so uh literally I had this bass, a broom handle and one string. I'd been playing it for a while. We used to do little gigs in village halls and stuff like that. It was a little hall in Stanmore. We were the interval skiffle group. There was the band, they were like quintet playing tunes, you know. And there was a bass player, real bass player. Because I was fixed on this bass, you know, I'm playing this tea chest. And the bass player came up to me and said, You get a good sound out of that, yeah. It's weird, isn't it? I think that's part of what we do. We have a sound in our head, yeah, which we try to achieve every time. That applies now as much as it did then. That's why I think when Scott said to me, it still sounds like you, you know, even if I'm playing a completely awful bass or something, or but trying to get some sound out of it, you're trying to get your sound, the sound you're hearing in your head. And I think that's what we try and do. That's right, yeah. And um, so I was obviously trying to I was doing it then with the teacher.

Geoff: 4:49

It's so interesting, isn't it? Yeah. We should try an experiment. You should play one thing, and then I'll play a thing, and then see if people can tell the difference. Yeah, yeah. Something that

Dave: 4:58

on the same on the same bass.

Geoff: 4:59

Well, you get that with piano players, don't you? Yeah, it's everything. Let's do can we do that now? Sure. Let's do that now. Let's do something like a chorus of a blues. Okay. Just one chorus of a blues in

Dave: 5:08

Blues and F.

Geoff: 5:09

Blues and F, right? Okay. Count me in. One, two. One, two, three, four. Yeah. Yeah. There you go, too. Right. Okay, see we go. Two, one, two, three, four. Yeah.

Dave: 6:09

Yeah. Oh yeah, I can hear a difference. It's a bit interesting as to compare. I mean, to me that was really clear, very focused. Nice bass. I think I'm a bit lighter. Just lighter in a touch. Just a bit lighter in a touch, yeah.

Geoff: 6:20

The bass like this, you don't need to play it very loud because it's got such a lovely thing. It's nice, nice, doesn't it? It's just speaks, doesn't it?

Dave: 6:27

It's got a nice it speaks well, doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah.

Geoff: 6:30

Look at that. Go and have a bite and you still hear that one. Beautiful. Oh, it's a good old bass, isn't it? That's lovely, yeah. Let's get back to the podcast. That was lovely, yeah. It's so funny, isn't it? Because bass players don't get together very often, do they?

Dave: 6:44

No, they don't. And it's good, it's good. I mean, it's it's great just to rabbit about bass. Talk about bass, yeah. Yeah.

Geoff: 6:51

So what about drummers? Playing playing with drummers. Do you have favourite drummers or have you got any good drummer stories from over the years?

Dave: 6:57

Well

Geoff: 6:59

I could see it in your whole face.

Dave: 7:03

There's been drummers over the years, yeah, that I've got on very well with. I've had issues with drummers about too loud or you know.

Geoff: 7:10

So here's the first question. How do you deal with the drummer that you're playing with that is too loud?

Dave: 7:14

Because I don't I don't like to tell anybody but know how to play. Yeah. If I'm playing with somebody, I try to, by the way I'm playing, try to influence the music that way. I don't like to be pedantic about what I want. So I don't

Geoff: 7:28

But that could I mean that could lead to a bad experience for you though, couldn't it? If you're completely obliterated by someone who's soloing all over you. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah. And that could be quite hard to deal with, can't it?

Dave: 7:38

It can be difficult to deal with. You know, I've never actually said to any drummer.

Geoff: 7:42

Now you're now your chance to speak, dude. Yeah. What about a drummer like Phil Seaman or something?

Dave: 7:47

It's great you mentioned with Phil because he was he was a fantastic drummer. I admired him so much. I played with Phil quite a lot, actually. You could say he was loud, yeah, but it was a strength, it was a vitality in his playing, a drive, and I loved his bass drum. It was a joy. I played with him with Roland Kirk. My first real big playing with an American musician at Ronnie's in '66. Phil was on drums. He was fantastic. Yeah, he was Phil Seaman. He was loud, he was raucous at times, but fantastic beat. Who am I to tell Phil Seaman? Of course, yeah, of course. You know, um, a bit earlier than that, I met Trevor Tomkins, who I played with a lot, with Don Rendell's band, you know. And uh Trevor was unlike any drummer that I'd ever played with before, because he was like a percussionist. What a wonderful listener. You'd do something rhythmically or something, he would be there, totally there. Some drummers I find are not listening like that. They have a kind of preconceived way of playing the time. They don't really relate the subtleties within the music.

Geoff: 8:47

So you you play with a different drummer and he might want to speed up, or it might be playing on the front of the beat or the back of the beat. What's your experience of that?

Dave: 8:54

Yeah, sometimes it's kind of uncomfortable feeling, it's a kind of rushing thing. Yeah. My feeling is I place time in the middle. So if I do play with a drummer that's slightly ahead, that's it's kind of gives me a kind of uncomfortable feeling. Yeah, yeah. But I try and make it work. Try and go go with it. I try and move towards him, but not entirely. Yeah. Uh I try and be very uh accommodating. Yeah, when I started, I I was very kind of um reserved. I didn't have the technical ability anyway. Yeah, I think I've grown with that. But um mentally, I think I pushed myself back rather than make my presence felt. You know, I was very reserved as a player, I think. You know, when I think how it was when I started. I think so, yeah. Wow. I grew because I I had these opportunities to play with these fantastic players, and that's good that's got to give you confidence, isn't it? You know, absolutely, yeah. So I my own personality was kind of um reserved, really. Yeah, and yeah, oh yeah.

Geoff: 9:50

It's funny being a bass player, isn't it? It's such a supportive role that we play. Yeah you know, actually to step out in the limelight is is not natural, is it, for us?

Dave: 10:00

Yeah, yeah. Uh, because when I started, I used to listen to Jimmy Blanton. Yeah, and he and he completely transformed the bass. Incredibly the way he lifted that Ellington band, the time, the tone. I think really when you when you think about it, I think there were two major innovators in jazz, bass playing, Blanton and Scott LaFaro, 20 years apart.

Geoff: 10:20

Did Scott LaFaro influence your playing?

Dave: 10:22

Oh, yeah.

Geoff: 10:22

He got you up the dusty end, did he?

Dave: 10:24

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I was staggered by it. The freedom and the you know, yeah, the sound, but he did have an incredible sound. Yeah, although he had a very low action. Yeah. But the recording, the recorded sound was fantastic. And there's a there's a record, I don't know if you heard it, with uh Harold Land before before we joined Bill. But this one was live. Have you heard the one live in Vancouver? No, not. Yeah, it's um this is another lesson. He's playing with uh Elmo Hope, who I think he was a drug addict, drunky at that time, and he's really not making it, Elmo Hope. He's kind of out of it, you know. But Scott is so strong. Scott and the drummer don't waver, they're absolutely right on it. Even though Elmo's doing his thing, you know, missing stuff. That's a lesson that I learned quite early on. Well, not actually, it wasn't that early.

Geoff: 11:13

Don't take drugs, that's the lesson.

Dave: 11:15

Don't take drugs for a start. But um, be strong in your own thing, you know. Yeah, but without being without being pedantic, this is this is where it is. Be strong, be confident, like confidence grew, as I say.

Geoff: 11:29

So you played with so many of the greats. I mean, you played with Sonny Rollins,

Dave: 11:33

yeah,

Geoff: 11:33

Coleman Hawkins,

Dave: 11:34

yeah, I know

Geoff: 11:35

Ben Webster.

Dave: 11:36

Extraordinary.

Geoff: 11:36

You've got some good memories of all that.

Dave: 11:38

Oh, it's massive, of course. It's affected my whole life. Because they were they were all wonderful people and and actually very, very humble. You know, the giants of the music, but were just wonderful human beings. Well, I mean, there was that time when I played with Hawkins for about five weeks, followed by Ben. So, you know, I'm playing with two of the greatest tenor players, one after the, you know, one comes in and does the month at Ronnie's, and then Ben comes in, you know. And of course, for a while they were both in town together. Of course, they were both staying at the White House in Regent's Park, and I had my Ford Anglia. I ended up taking Hawk and Ben to the White House when we had photos of it. I know, I wish I, you know, honestly, man. Because I spoke to Ben about Blanton, they were in the band together, Duke. It's quite an emotional thing. But it stays with you forever.

Geoff: 12:29

What about Sonny Rollins?

Dave: 12:31

Well, it was Sonny. Ronnie called me up and said, Can you do Sonny when he comes in? You know, April.

Geoff: 12:37

Actually, I'm busy, yeah. Sorry, I've got to wash my hair.

Dave: 12:43

You know, I mean, I'm thinking, well,

Geoff: 12:46

He would play long solos, wouldn't he, Sonny Rollins?

Dave: 12:48

Oh, yeah, he would stretch out on Night and Day for like 40 minutes.

Geoff: 12:52

Really? Oh, yeah, yeah. So one set of one tune.

Dave: 12:54

Yeah, he would he would play two tunes sticking my mind, Three Little Words, and uh Night and Day. You know, it might not have been the whole set, but it was pretty much the whole set. It would be like that for about a week or you know, because it was a month's gig. That was another thing talking about drummers because Tony Oxley was on that gig. And Tony had never played with Tony before, and Tony he again was like, I'd never played with a drummer like that. This is a huge thing for me. And Stan was on piano, Stan Tracy, who I'd been playing with quite a bit, but uh this guy on drums, you know, from Sheffield, who was completely anarchy, you know. Wow. To me, I but when I think back on it, it was my my mindset. Yeah, I wasn't ready for somebody like Tony. Whereas Ronnie, who booked Tony, absolutely fine about Tony. Yeah, exactly.

Geoff: 13:45

But that's a lesson for you.

Dave: 13:46

But it's a lesson for me. And again, it's a lesson, yeah, it's an absolute lesson, yeah.

Geoff: 13:55

Right, I asked you to pick a tune to play today. I'm gonna get you to play along with one of the tunes in the apps if that's alright. Sure. What tune did you pick?

Dave: 14:04

Autumn Leaves.

Geoff: 14:06

Okay. Right, so Dave's got his bass in his hand now, so uh there's the Miles introduction, and uh and it's gonna be great. Here we go.

Dave: 16:45

Thank you. Thank you very much. Oh, thank you very much.

Geoff: 16:48

That's great. How did it feel to play along with?

Dave: 16:50

Good, felt very good, yeah. I like I like Graham uh sounds.

Geoff: 16:54

There you go, reliable, reliable trio, right?

Dave: 16:57

Yeah, yeah, yeah, lovely. Yeah,

Geoff: 16:58

so tell me about this bass.

Dave: 17:00

Yeah, this is uh Louis Lowendall 1860. Gorgeous. Made in Berlin. And it's a three-quarter instrument, but it's my favourite instrument. It's I mean, for for many years I was playing a 7-8ths bohemian bass. It's a bass I play with with Ben Webster and Cole Hawkins, Sonny Rollins. But it had a really good bottom end on it. Only in the last two or three years I've gone back to this one, mainly because I'm getting a bit older now, and the bloody seven eighths base is pretty heavy.

Geoff: 17:25

I was gonna say that,

Dave: 17:26

But this is this is beautiful and

Geoff: 17:28

it's lovely, isn't it?

Dave: 17:28

And so I'm really happy with it.

Geoff: 17:30

It's great. Play us a few notes, just I just want to hear it a little bit more.

Dave: 17:36

Yeah, it's got a nice ring to it, isn't it?

Geoff: 17:41

It does, great. Yeah, got a great resonance, yeah. Yeah.

Dave: 17:47

The other thing you see is I think they need a rest. No, you know what? I mean, I left it in my mum's bedroom, stuck in the corner for it must have been 15 years. Didn't touch it, you know. Right. Then when I joined Barber, I got it out and it felt it wanted to be played. Yeah. You know,

Geoff: 18:05

It's like it's coming out of retirement.

Dave: 18:07

Yeah, you know, it's like that. And the same thing with this one. I didn't play this for a long time because I was playing the other one, you know. Right, right. And so, but now it's it it's I can feel it, it's in it's enjoying being played.

Geoff: 18:19

Yeah, they do though, don't they? They just resonate with it.

Dave: 18:22

It's almost like a living thing, you know, you relate to it in that kind of way. It is, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And it and it starts speaking for you. It's like Sparky's magic piano, you know.

Geoff: 18:33

I loved that when I was a kid. Where did you get your bass playing ideas, licks, and?

Dave: 18:48

Just from listening to records. Charlie and I used to buy 78s, and he built up a better collection than me. We used to listen to each other's records in our bedrooms, you know. Charlie Parker and Massey Hall and some Monk records. I had some 78s that Duke Ellington o with Jimmy Blanton. I'd copy Israel Crosby's solo on um it was a 78 I bought called Barrel House. Right. And the the bass solo was quite simple because he was only about 15 when he made that record, you know, in 1935, Israel, who became one of my favourite bass players. So I just copied the solo. Quite a simple solo. That kind of thing, yeah. Right, right. And um, so chuffed myself, you know, like the achievement, you know, you actually can have can play.

Geoff: 19:34

Being inside the music,

Dave: 19:35

Being someone else's music and play, and it helps you develop, you know.

Geoff: 19:39

Did you ever write anything down?

Dave: 19:41

No, I didn't. But I was greatly helped with reading reading by Michael Garrick. Because when I turned pro, I couldn't read, not really. I could read changes. And I'll still I don't consider myself now even now a great reader, but uh I find certain things very quite complicated.

Geoff: 19:57

Reading dots and rhythms and stuff.

Dave: 19:58

Yeah, yeah. If I go over stuff, I, I can make it happen, you know.

Geoff: 20:02

Because no one would have you know, Sonny Rollins and Coleman Hawkins.

Dave: 20:05

No, no, no. There's no music. No, no, not at all. No, I mean Stan wrote some stuff out, and Garrick as well was very specific, wasn't it? This was 1964. I turned pro in 63, went to France, then came back, and then started meeting guys on the scene. And Peter McGurk was very helpful to me, Dudley Moore's bass player. Lovely player, yeah. Great player, great player, great session man. And he took a shine to me because I w as introduced to him by Maurice Gawronsky, the South African drummer I'd been in France with, and he introduced me to Peter, and uh he he liked me, Peter, and he said, Oh, oh yeah, come in and do some sets for me, which was fantastic for me. I you know, I went into the establishment club. He would ring me out and say, uh, there's one occasion I've told this story before, they actually went to bed, you know, because the establishment club was open until about one or two in the morning with Dudley Moore and Chris Karan was on drums in 1960, early late 63, early 64. Yeah, he would say, Can you can you do tomorrow? You know, come in for I said, Yeah, I'd go in on the tube. But this particular night, he called me out of the blue because he would book me ahead. But this particular night I've got the call, I'd gone to bed about 11:30 and the phone went. Can you come in and do the last set? Oh yeah, right. Get out of bed. Of course, you jump out of bed, you said, get get a cab up to the station, get go and go in, go in on the last train. It's all very exciting stuff. Yeah, isn't it?

Geoff: 21:29

So you played with Dudley Moore, did you?

Dave: 21:31

Played with Dudley and uh

Geoff: 21:32

How did that feel?

Dave: 21:33

Wonderful, yeah. Yeah, tremendous player, and uh so that whole period was when I met Michael Garrick, yeah, and uh Mike started booking me for trio gigs, and he he was a as you know, a very prolific writer. And I could read a little bit, you know, but but he he really helped me a lot because he liked my playing, he would be he was so patient with me, you know, yeah, nurtured me along, which is fantastic, that's what you need.

Geoff: 22:01

To finish off, I've got a few questions I ask everybody. Um the first question is what's your favourite album?

Dave: 22:09

My favourite album? Blimey, Kind of Blue is up there. It was made in 59, wasn't it?

Geoff: 22:18

It's hard to put that into perspective now.

Dave: 22:19

Yeah, I mean yeah, it is. It's it's it was so incredible. I don't think the guys had seen the music before. And then it's got that immediacy and uh Miles, there's everybody's strengths. I mean, it's an extraordinary record. Paul Chambers on that record, you know, Bill Evans.

Geoff: 22:36

Do you remember when you first heard it?

Dave: 22:37

No, I don't know, because I was hearing so many things at the same time. I mean, Mingus Ah Um.

Geoff: 22:42

59 was a was a massive year for jazz, wasn't it?

Dave: 22:45

Of course, yeah, but I hadn't mentioned um Ornette Coleman. As you say, 59 was was an incredible year, because that's when I first heard Ornette. And unlike a lot of guys, I mean I was only I was 17 or something, six, six, eighteen, you know. And I'd been listening to Duke, Benny Goodman. And then I heard Ornette, and I loved it straight away. I just loved it. To me, it was it was like the extension of Bird. That was the first record Tomorrow Is the Question that I heard. Yeah, so I mean, it's all that wonderful music. I mean, Sonny at the Vanguard with Wilbur Ware. That's another incredible record. I mean, Wilbur Ware, what a bass player he was.

Geoff: 23:22

Great bass player's recording.

Dave: 23:24

Incredible bass player, Wilbur Ware. I mean, it's staggering. It is, yeah.

Geoff: 23:28

Uh, second question: is there a favourite musician alive or dead you would have liked to have played with?

Dave: 23:34

Which I'd like to have played with, I never did. I would probably say Stan Getz. Yeah, that would that would have been quite an experience, I think. I heard Stan Getz. Yeah. Uh Ronnie's phenomenal. You know,

Geoff: 23:46

I actually heard him as well. The Festival Hall with Kenny Barron, yeah. Oh, did you? I mean, he's someone with talking about time. I mean, just immaculate.

Dave: 23:54

Incredible, incredible, yeah, incredible player. Very, very difficult guy. Might not have been easy to play with him. But um, his whole body of work over the you know, an incredible player.

Geoff: 24:07

What do you say the highlight of your career is?

Dave: 24:10

Mmm, one highlight. I've got so many playing with all those guys, yeah. Oh boy. I think of Ben, Hawkins, Sonny, Zoot and Al, you know.

Geoff: 24:24

You can't pick one guy.

Dave: 24:25

I can't separate them, really. They can't uh Roland, you know, it's just um just an incredible experience for me uh in when I was in my mid-twenties to play. I mean, uh and Ronnie Scott and Pete King gave me that opportunity. I'll never forget never forget it as long as I live. Amazing. So it was a massive thing for me that that whole period, you know.

Geoff: 24:46

Have you you've done a lot of recording as well? What about a favourite recorded moment of yourself?

Dave: 24:51

Yeah, there was a couple of things. I did a trio broadcast with Stan Tracy and Brian Spring, which was Radio London, and it started about midnight, went on to about four in the morning, and uh I've got the tapes of it or the CDs of it, you know. Uh-huh. And I'm playing the old uh 7-8ths bass. Yeah. And I don't know what it is. I just love, I just I'm quite happy with that.

Geoff: 25:17

Did it ever get released?

Dave: 25:18

No, it's not released, no, no, it's not released. There's something about it, uh, you know, like it but extraordinary. For for a while, that quartet with Art Themen was was quite an incredible band, actually.

Geoff: 25:28

There's so many elements, aren't there, in terms of that, you know, the acoustic in the room, the the feeling, the the you know, all these things. Yeah, exactly. Has to be right, yeah. Yeah, fantastic. What was the last concert you attended?

Dave: 25:41

It's been a while. You must have seen some amazing concerts. Did you see Miles play? Yeah, I did. Yeah, yeah. I saw Miles in 61. Yeah, and I saw Coltrane in in 61.

Geoff: 25:52

Yeah. A few other people have mentioned that as well. That that year they played didn't they play in Walthamstow or something?

Dave: 25:58

But I saw them at Gaumont State, Kilburn, Coltraine with Dolphy, Elvin, Reggie Workman, I think it was, and McCoy. Amazing, that sticks in your mind. Right. And and the Miles was with with Sonny Stitt. Right. And Paul Chambers and uh Winton Kelly in 61. It was like just after Coltrane had left and Sonny Stitt came in. Then the the new band was reformed in what 63 when Wayne Shorter came in and Ron Carter. Yeah. Mentioning Ron Carter, I mean, I think Ron Carter actually is the man now. His amazing career, yeah, his amazing playing. Yeah. All those, I mean, what an inspiration. That's that's the last concert. That's the one, Ron Carter. When he came over, that would that was an incredible concert. A couple couple of years ago, I think. You met him?

Geoff: 26:45

I met Ron, yeah. It's funny.

Dave: 26:48

And then we've got a story here, because I did too.

Geoff: 26:50

Yeah, okay. So my friend Sebastiaan De Krom, who plays drums, he went to school in Monk Institute in the U in America, and Ron was one of the tutors there. So he knew Ron quite well. Oh man, I didn't know that. I got to play at the Newport Jazz Festival with Jamie Cullen Trio. Wow. Right, and this was 2002, something like that. And um playing before us, believe it or not, was the McCoy Tyner Trio with Roy Haynes and Ron Carter. Oh man. And we were in the middle of a US tour, right? So we were playing big concerts, right? So at the time I wasn't taking a real bass round. I had a cut-down stick bass. Oh, I had one of those. I had one of those, you know. Which sounds great for you know, no feedback and sure. Yeah. Anyway, I was playing it and they were sitting right in front of us. And I I got to meet Ron afterwards. Oh. And he said he said to me, he said, hey man, you should take up the acoustic bass. It's a lot of fun. And I thought, oh mate. He was lovely. I've got pictures and stuff.

Dave: 27:54

Man, but you know, uh I I relate a story. I was on I was touring in Germany. I think it was the George Masso All Stars. All right. You know, a straight-ahead band. So we're staying in this hotel in Germany, and uh we'll come down for breakfast. It's a long, long, a long table, you know. And um who should walk in? Ron Carter. Just happens to be staying at the same hotel. I don't know, I don't even know who he was playing. And it was the only space available was opposite me. And he sat down and and and all the guys, hey Ron, man, you know, all the guys they all know him, you know. Yeah, and just by chance, you know, he was a bass player, and nobody said that. You know, we were just having breakfast, you know.

Geoff: 28:37

Yeah, yeah.

Dave: 28:37

So I was just sitting there opposite, like we are now. Yeah. And he sat down and he looked at me and he smiled, you know. He and I I I knew that he knew I was a bass player. And we we hardly spoke. We were just joining in the conversation that they're all having, you know. But he was smiling at me all the time, you know. And I'm in Ron Carter's presence. And that that was actually enough. No, you know what I mean. I know I I'm I'm with this giant of the bass.

Geoff: 29:07

How did you feel afterwards? Did you feel kind of inspired or do you

Dave: 29:11

I did, yeah, I did, I did. It was I I think there's a lot to be said for that. That that feeling of meeting your hero. Meeting your hero. You don't you don't even have to say anything.

Geoff: 29:21

I met Charlie Hayden just in an airport terminal. There you go. And my mouth was open, it's Charlie Hayden, you know. And he has triplets. Did you know that? Three girls, I think. No, I didn't know that. And I've got twin girls. All I could think of saying to him was, I've got twins. Yeah, I know. What are you gonna say? What are you gonna say? That's fantastic. Another one was was I was playing with this rap kind of group called Us Three, right, in the 90s. Oh, I heard of that. Yeah, they were quite big in the 90s, yeah. It was kind of jazz musicians with group with samples and grooves and stuff. Yeah, we did an American tour. The end of the tour, and they had a big hit with Cantaloupe Island. An electronic version of Cantaloupe Island. Oh, yeah. Right? End of the tour. Little party. Who was there? Herbie Hancock. Again, it was like hello.

Dave: 30:16

What do you say?

Geoff: 30:18

I had no idea what to say. Yeah. Oh.

Dave: 30:20

Well, it's a bit like that with Ron. You're like, what am I gonna do? Ask him what strings are using. You don't do that, do you?

Geoff: 30:28

Jesus. Yeah, I'm not sure how I feel about meeting my heroes. I I'd yeah, in some ways, I'd rather just keep them on pedestals. I think you're right anyway. Right, let's move on. What would you say is your musical weakness?

Dave: 30:42

Hmm. Many. Many, many weaknesses. I wish I had more theory behind me. Okay. Yeah, because I'm I'm being self-taught. I I I've learned from good piano players, experienced piano players, so I've learned a hell of a lot from them. I mean, I've I've I I can hear things, always had a good ear, that's a good thing about me. But I lack a lot of basic theory, really, uh, about music. I'm not too, you know, I'm not drawing a paint too dark a picture of myself, but um I wish I had more more background knowledge.

Geoff: 31:17

Have you ever have you ever been a teacher?

Dave: 31:19

No, I have done a bit of one-to-one thing. Uh and I've at the Academy, I have done a bit of that, and I mean I've enjoyed it actually. Yeah, I've enjoyed it. But I'm I'm certainly don't regard myself as a teacher because I've got not and I haven't got enough confidence to because of my own lack of knowledge.

Geoff: 31:35

I suppose to other people of your generation as well, and because there was no education, was there when you started? It's

Dave: 31:42

I I just learned from going to see guys play, yeah, people like Kenny Napper, Rick Laird, who when I started doing gigs at um uh Ronnie Scott's school was a great bass player, wasn't he? He was a great bass player, Rick Laird. He played with Sonny before I did. Yeah, I admired him so much. His technique, his musicality, it was just fantastic, you know. So I you learn just by listening and watching. That's that and that's all I did. There were no jazz. No, there wasn't, was there? And you and of course you're listening to records all the time. You're learning from it's an oral skill that we we do, isn't it? You know, and and doing gigs and learning on the gig, you know, learning tunes, learning songs on the gig, you know, in in that way, rather than going through school. Although I did have a wonderful music teacher, because the same school that I went to with Charlie, Charlie was a year ahead of me. Tyler's Croft Secondary Modern School in Kingsbury, which is now Kingsbury High School, had a wonderful music teacher, and he he was so encouraging, which I think was very, very important to me. It's very important, isn't it? Yeah. You know Mr. Perkins. So he inspired both you and Charlie. Yeah, absolutely. Different, we were in different years, but I was what 12, 13. When I think back on it, it was a great idea. He said to the class, right, I want you to bring next next week, you're gonna bring in your favourite records, and we'll have a record session. Great idea. Yeah, I was the only kid that bought in jazz records. I bought in um that that record with Louie, the Blues for Bass, yeah, and uh Lionel Hampton 78 I had with um Teddy Wilson and Red Callender was right, and I had these two records, you know. This was fantastic. He said, he he said, What have you got, uh David? I saw what he's trying to do. He played both of them for the class. He said, Listen to this, this is great music. Could he he could have gone the other way?

Geoff: 33:34

And he had an open mind to two.

Dave: 33:35

He couldn't, he could have he said, yeah, jazz, or you know, you know, you should be listening to classical music or something. No, he was it's fantastic. He really enhanced my yeah, it gave me confidence. This yeah, you know, I'm on the right I'm on the right road. Yeah,

Geoff: 33:51

I think we all have figures like that in our lives, don't we, that have inspired us on that on our journeys, you know. It's it's it's so important, isn't it? It is very important, yeah. All right, um do you ever get nervous on stage?

Dave: 34:02

Less so these days. I did go through a period of being, yeah, but and largely to do with not liking the sound. But one of the places I don't like playing is the Festival Hall. I don't know what it is about the place, it's kind of you feel like you're walking on glass or something. I don't know. Something about the acoustic. Whereas the Queen Elizabeth Hall is fine.

Geoff: 34:22

That creates nerves, doesn't it?

Dave: 34:23

It does, it does, yeah. And uh funny enough, Humphrey when I was at Humphrey, he felt the same. He had various halls, he didn't like the Fairfield Hall, Croydon. Just something about the stage or the relationship with the audience, but I'm less so now. I think

Geoff: 34:37

And we spoke about that, didn't we spoke about the confidence thing, you know, and playing with those greats.

Dave: 34:41

Yeah, that's right, that's right.

Geoff: 34:42

But I mean it's probably not nerves, is it, that you would have felt? Would it be just sort of anticipation and

Dave: 34:48

yeah, uh funny enough, I did yeah, I didn't feel nerves in that way. No, probably because chronologically I built up kind of confidence, you know, through Roland and Ben and Walk. No, I also the other thing is um I've got to the stage in my life now, I'm 83 now. I mean, I don't say I don't give a sh but but

Geoff: 35:08

I know what you mean. I'm not far behind you.

Dave: 35:11

I'm not like that, but I do I think what's the point of being nervous, you know, at this stage? No, no, you know, come on, just get on with it.

Geoff: 35:18

What about if you've got some difficult music to play? I mean, does that that would probably create something?

Dave: 35:23

Oh yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, difficult music. I do get if I need more time over it, you know, whatever.

Geoff: 35:29

Right, I've got a few other non-related questions. What's your favourite sandwich?

Dave: 35:35

Oh, favourite sandwich? Probably tuna salad. Tuna salad,

Geoff: 35:40

okay. Says a lot about a person, but what they what they're like in the sandwich.

Dave: 35:44

I'm a fishy person, yeah.

Geoff: 35:45

You're a fish. Oh, okay. What about a favourite movie?

Dave: 35:49

Uh what's that? Uh A Love Affair to Remember.

Geoff: 35:53

Oh, . And Deborah Carr. I love that film. I'm a bit of a romantic, you know. Oh, you like a rom-com.

Dave: 36:01

Yeah, and um, I think uh James Cagney, White Heat. Right, okay. I like classic movies, you know. Fantastic. I'm the fan of Laurel and Hardy.

Geoff: 36:10

Yeah, I saw the poster as I come in with a double bass.

Dave: 36:13

Laurel and Hardy playing the bass, yeah. They're in the street, they're busking in the street. That's right. And Stan's playing the harmonium. Oh, brilliant. It's fantastic. And the notes he's playing.

Geoff: 36:24

It's just random, isn't it? It's just fantastic.

Dave: 36:29

A bit like the bass I played in uh with Benny Carter. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's so there's so many movies. But I go to National Film Theatre quite often. You get the programme through and something in there I want to watch, you know. Uh uh, I go with Carol my wife sometimes. But we both love that film. Love theater remember. Fantastic.

Geoff: 36:47

Um, I think you probably already covered this next one, but what's is there a favourite venue you like to to play in?

Dave: 36:54

Yeah, Pizza Express. I I love playing there. It's not too big, it's it's intimate. The sound, it's got an inherently a good sound, acoustic. I just love it, and and um I feel comfortable there, you know? I feel I I can play. I can play.

Geoff: 37:09

You play a lot there with Scott Hamilton.

Dave: 37:11

I do with Scott Hamilton, yeah. Mainly, well, I no different people some occasionally, but um mainly with Scott. We do three times a year with Scott.

Geoff: 37:18

But you do extended periods, don't you? Which that makes sense.

Dave: 37:21

Well we do we do a week. Yeah. Uh yeah, we do uh January, we do a week, and then we do sometimes we do some other gigs as well. Uh and then we do Easter and then we do August. So we do three weeks a year, you know.

Geoff: 37:34

I mean, that in itself is is quite a rarity nowadays, isn't it? For you to play at the start.

Dave: 37:40

When you think of of uh uh Ronnie's in the old days, it was a month. You you worked there for a month. It was that was the gig, yeah, it was incredible.

Geoff: 37:47

Well, I came in the late 80s, that's when I started working in Ronnie's, and I I remember the the local support band, the main band, the local support band, the main band. Yeah, you know, it was it was a great that's what it was. It was always the same. It was a great week, you know, Monday to Saturday.

Dave: 38:01

And you if you're in the support band, you got to meet the guys, you know, whoever it might be. I remember sort of some fantastic bands down there.

Geoff: 38:07

I used to play opposite Elvin quite a few weeks I played opposite Elvin.

Dave: 38:12

It's just wonderful Ronnie's in those days, it was incredible. The guys were there, as you say, you know, you could go there. Yeah, if you miss Monday, you can go Thursday, you know. Yeah, that's right. You know, um that was that was the thing.

Geoff: 38:22

What about travel? I mean, do you do you travel much? Have you got have you got a favourite country or a city that you like to?

Dave: 38:27

I love Vienna. I I played in Vienna quite a bit, the Jazzland, one of my favourite clubs anywhere. I love it. I know I knew Axel, the owner, he's sadly died uh last year. And Tilly his wife. Uh yeah, I did I did the 30th anniversary there and I did the 50th anniversary there, you know. It's it's a lovely, and I loved it, I love Vienna anyway. It's a great hotel. I I just love it, you know, right as a city. But I I love Germany, I love playing in I love playing in Europe. Uh of course when I was with Chris Barber's band for three years, it was all it was all over Europe all the time. Chris has such a vitality and uh energy, you know. Be doing it for years. I mean, I I went to see Chris with Charlie Watts in 1957 at the Wembley Town Hall, because we lived in Wembley. It was Charlie and me. I was 15, he was 16. Before we started playing with a band, you know. Then I got the offer to join Chris Barber in 2007. 50 years later, I joined the band. And I did three years all over Europe with Chris, and and I loved it. I loved it. It wasn't it wasn't a trad band by the n, he was doing all kinds of different stuff, you know. He was playing playing All Blues, for instance, you know.

Geoff: 39:41

Did you travel to America much?

Dave: 39:43

Uh with Charlie.

Geoff: 39:44

Yeah.

Dave: 39:44

Um, yeah, we did um with a big band, 80 86, I think. You got you got the big band together in 85. Then we went to the States 86, all over the States, yeah. Um we also played in Canada. We did uh Massey Hall, you know, it was amazing to play Massey Hall where Bird and Diz did a famous concert. Yeah, loved it over there and uh played in New York. All these opportunities came with Charlie. Played in Tokyo, the Blue Note in Tokyo. You might you probably played that it's great, isn't it? I mean, you know, you get treated fantastically, you know. Yeah, I mean

Geoff: 40:19

So speaking of Charlie, I mean you must you know you must miss him, of course.

Dave: 40:22

I do miss him terribly, yeah.

Geoff: 40:23

He was he was one of your best friends. He was my very best, longest friend, you know, since a very early age. So I do miss him terribly, yeah. Did he live close by? Did you see him a lot?

Dave: 40:33

He had a he had a place in Devon. I went there once, so I didn't I didn't see him that much, you know. That in fact, that's one of the reasons why that we got that boogie band together. But well, we got the call from Ben Waters, who was a young young piano player.

Geoff: 40:47

I depped for you in in that band. Of course you did. Remember? I didn't know.

Dave: 40:50

Of course you did. That's right. I've forgotten that, Geoff. Yeah, quite a bit. You did you did the gigs, that's right. I played some of the gigs. Some of the gigs in the early days, yeah. Ben, he called me, he said, uh, oh, can you can you come down and do this concert? And I hadn't seen Charlie for about five years, you know. Because I never I wouldn't see Charlie for years on end. Yeah. Obviously, I've forgotten the name, but Big Band he gets to play with. Some big band he was playing with. Yes. And so I wouldn't see him, but he would call me sometimes, you know, from Melbourne or once something, you know, hey David, he always called me David. Hey David, I'm in Melbourne watching the cricket. Oh great, you know, all that kind of stuff. But I had the call from Ben saying, Would I come down to Dorset to play? He plucked up courage to ask Charlie to do this gig with him and Ben with Ben and Axel Zwingenberger. So I hadn't seen Charlie for about five years, and then of course, that as a result of that gig, we ended up doing about two or three years on the road with the with the boogie band, you know. That was fantastic, yeah. Nice, yeah. That was all that was in the States and uh all over Europe. Yeah,

Geoff: 41:49

Amazing. Well, I've got one last uh question I ask everybody, and the question is what's your favourite chord?

Dave: 41:57

Oh, blimey. F7

Geoff: 42:04

That'll do.

Dave: 42:05

Blues in F. Yeah.

Geoff: 42:09

Well, I think that'll wrap it up, Dave. I think it's been it's been such fun having a chat.

Dave: 42:13

Geoff, I've I've enjoyed every minute of it.

Geoff: 42:15

Yeah, I could do we'll have to do part two. Over again. Well, so many thick questions I could have things we could have talked about.

Dave: 42:22

Thanks, mate. It's been it's been lovely being with you, and uh I'm really glad you talked me into it. Yeah.

Geoff: 42:29

Lovely playing too.

Dave: 42:30

Thank you. Um and you too. Great, Geoff. Thanks, mate.

Geoff: 42:33

Thanks, Dave, all the best. Thank you for making it to the end of another podcast. Please subscribe if you want to hear more of them as they land. The Quartet Jazz Standards Podcast is a UK music apps production. Quartet for iOS, taking your jazz play along to another level. Search for Quartet on the App Store or find out more at Quartetapp.com.