Welcome and What’s Coming Up

Geoff 0:01

Hello, Podcats. Geoff Goscoyne here. Hope you're well. Today I'm having a visitor around to my house in south London. His name is Marc Cecil. He's a fantastic drummer and percussion player and educator. We're going to have a little chat about Latin percussion, Cuban and Brazilian percussion. He's going to bring his pandeiro round, which is a kind of tambourine. What's the difference between a pandera and a tambourine? And of course the answer is 150 quid. So we're going to chat a little bit about that. I'm going to get him to play some pandeiro for you. And we're going to talk about his association with the great Robin Jones. And whatever comes up. So here comes the chat. Hello, Mark. How are you?

Marc 1:08

I'm good, Geoff. Yeah, good, thanks.

Geoff 1:09

Can we start? Can you tell me a little bit about how you got started and uh what got you into music in the first place?

Marc 1:15

I'll tell you exactly where how I got started. Paul McCartney did a little tour of local theatres years ago. I think I was about 12, and my mum went and camped to get a ticket and got two tickets, and we went and saw Paul McCartney in the Cliff Pavilion.

Geoff 1:30

In South end, the Cliff Pavilion?

Marc 1:31

Yeah.

Geoff 1:32

Paul McCartney played in the Cliff Pavilion.

Marc 1:33

He did a whole tour, UK tour, of small theatres. And when we came out, they were my mum and dad were like, What'd you think? You know, because it was all it was all music they really knew. And they said, I had no idea about the singer, but I I knew the colour of the drum kit, I knew the guy, I knew everything about the drummer. And uh from then on it was like maybe we should get him some drum lessons. So yeah, maybe I maybe I was younger, maybe I was 11. But so I started maybe quite late in in those terms, but I remember that being-

Geoff 2:00

Did you have lessons?

Marc 2:01

Yeah, yeah, I I think I did a couple of years just kind of messing about at school. You know, there was a school meeting, and the music teacher went, Yeah, you he's he's on the kit all the time, you should get him some lessons. So yeah, started from there, really. I just did everything I could do at school. I mean, it it ended up, you know. I had a drum kit in quite a small house, and it ended with the the drum kit was in my parents' bedroom because it was the only place it could be. I was going into school early, playing before school, lunchtime, and in the end, they you know, they sort of came to an agreement and uh the school kit was awful. So they went, Well, if you want to bring his kit in, we'll give him the keys to a room. So I had my own room at school.

Geoff 2:39

Fantastic.

Marc 2:39

And I just used you know, used to play there everything. I mean, it was a you know normal state school, but I did everything I could do there. Music teacher was really supportive, and it was it was great. Really good.

Geoff 2:48

Fantastic. And and what about percussion? You're an expert? Would you call yourself an expert on Brazilian percussion?

Rhythmsticks Festival and Robin Jones Lessons

Marc 2:53

No, I wouldn't say I'm an expert. There's people far more, with far more expertise than me. But that started to when I was at uni, I went to Middlesex and did the Jazz and World music course there and did some percussion stuff, and then I that's a funny story actually. So I broke my bass drum pedal and I was looking for, I needed a cheap one because I was at college, and I can't remember the magazine. There was a music magazine, and they always had the kind of classified bits in the back, and it had, you know, uh DW bass drum pedal for some which is the expensive one for some silly cheap price. So I found it was around the corner, and I found out, and it was Gary Mann, and he runs Remo. He runs UK, the UK side of the Remo drum company. So I got talking to him, and we knew loads of the same people. He knew the people teaching at Middlesex and stuff. He went, What are you doing this weekend? Well, not a lot. You know, I'm a student, nothing, nothing really. Well, actually, I need someone to drive a transit van to the Rhythmsticks Festival at the Festival Hall. You're gonna have three drum kits in there and loads of drum heads, and blah blah blah. And what I need you to do over the course of the weekend is put a drum kit in each room and then go and find each person kind of a couple of hours before they play, find out what they want, set up and basically prep the kits for all these people. So, which included Pete Erskine, Airto, Jack DeJohnette in terms of drum heads. So I spent a weekend going, this is crazy. I sat behind Louis Bellson, I had to pick up Louis Bellson's kit, drive it to the studio, sit next to him while I rehearse with the BBC, and I was reading the chart over his shoulder, and he was lovely, gave me a load of stuff. And in that, uh, the BBC Big Band were playing with Harold Fisher, and Robin, the guy called Robin Jones, came in and did a tune on congas. And I was speaking to everyone and what did they need? And he went, Oh, you should come and have some lessons on percussion if you're into percussion. Well, I spent probably an hour chatting to him in the in the green room. He said, Come and have a lesson, I'll give you a free lesson, come and have a lesson. So, all right, okay, great. It felt to me like a kind of not quite an arrangement. It was just, oh, you must come and have a lesson Tuesday at 10. And that was it, and then he was gone. And you know, I was thinking, Do I go? Is that a real thing? Or was that a kind of a passing comment? And I thought, well, I have to go. So I went, I went there Tuesday at 10, you know, knocked on the door, and the top of the upstairs window opened, and he had and he kind of hung out and went, Oh, hi, I'll be down in a minute. It took him about 25 minutes to answer the door. I don't think he was up. And uh he answered the door, let me make yourself a cup of tea, and then he went upstairs, and about half an hour later he came down and he was ready. And then at about, I think it was five or six in the evening, I went, I've got a gig, I've got to go. I was literally there for the whole day. And I said to Robin, you know, and I was kind of sitting there as a student going, This is amazing, but now I can't afford it. I was coming for an hour.

Geoff 5:36

Right.

Marc 5:37

And he said it's

Geoff 5:38

but you hadn't discussed the price at within.

Marc 5:39

Well, I knew it was it was £20 an hour.

Geoff 5:41

Right, okay.

Marc 5:42

That's what he'd said. And I'm sitting there going, Oh dear. Kind of wasn't gonna leave, but I didn't have that money on me, so I sort of stopped it. I went, right, you need to tell me how much because I need to go to a cash point and I'll come back. And da. And Robbie went, it's £20. I said £20. I went, no, you said £20 for an hour. And he went, no, no, and he said, and he I'll never forget it. And he went, I said you said an hour, I chose to carry on. That's it. And he did it so many times, you know.

Geoff 6:10

What a nice man.

Marc 6:11

He was lovely.

Geoff 6:12

How old were you when you first had that lesson with him?

Marc 6:14

21, I think. So that was the beginning of congas, and he and you know, and he had a particular concept on it. He he was kind of like, I won't teach you one thing, you need to learn them all. Because if you learn congas, you won't understand how the congas relate to the timbales and the bongos. So you need to kind of you more go, we're gonna learn this style or this rhythm, and we're gonna learn all the parts, then we're gonna learn this rhythm and all the parts.

Geoff 6:38

So was he teaching you Cuban or Cuban?

Marc 6:41

Yeah, very much Cuban stuff.

Geoff 6:42

Right, okay.

Marc 6:42

Brazilian stuff started at Middlesex with Chris Batchelor and Stuart Hall. I didn't realise Stuart Hall played quite good percussion, and then that kind of picked up with Robin. You know, he this is his pandeiro. He taught me various bits. I I ended up being in his band, and once you're in his band, everything that he did being.

Geoff 7:00

Is that the King Salsa band?

Marc 7:01

There was two. There was King Salsa, and then there was the Latin Jazz Sex tet, which I played kit and timbales. So that was all sort kind of Salsa Cuban stuff, but he played, you know, he used to play in the big carnival in Rio. He would fly over there and he'd he'd uh this video of him with a pandeiro that's kind of massive launching it 20 foot up in the air and catching it and doing all the, you know, he'd roll it across his shoulders and and all that stuff. So he was quite serious about the Brazilian stuff as well.

Geoff 7:29

Where was he from then?

Marc 7:30

Wales. Robin Jones,

Geoff 7:31

Robin Jones.

Marc 7:33

Yeah, I mean it's very funny because people come up to him after gigs and go, uh, you know, because he has a dark complexion and and they'd assume he was from Cuba or somewhere. Yeah. And so people go, you know, which part of Cuba are you from? Then he was, oh you know, around and he would never quite go. I never heard him say in 20 years, I'm Welsh. I never heard that.

Geoff 7:54

Well that that that will ruin the whole image.

Marc 7:56

Yeah, he was quite happy for the mystery to roll on. It was it was really good fun.

Brazilian and Cuban Percussion Differences

Geoff 8:00

Amazing. Uh, could you explain the difference between Brazilian and Cuban?

Marc 8:04

First of all, the instruments are really different. So Cuban music is you know, the three things you're really talking about are congos, bongos, and timbales. Most Cuban music stems from those three. There's lots of other instruments as well, but it comes from there. And none of those things are really played in Brazil.

Geoff 8:20

Do you think that's because they just don't have access to those instruments, or is that a traditional thing?

Marc 8:25

I mean, I'm not particularly good on the history of it all. You know, some like Bosco De Oliveira, he's he's taken it right back to Africa and he can talk really knowledgeably about it. But you know, it all comes from Africa, and I think it's come from there, and it's it mixes with whatever the local culture is, and you get that version. So I think it was sort of two interpretations of African music.

Geoff 8:47

There's more guitars in Brazil than there are in Cuba in terms of the music, isn't there?

Marc 8:51

Yeah, early son music, very early simple salsa, if you like, um, was all on guitar. So it was all on the kind of tres guitar. But you hear, I think you associate now bossa nova and things like that, it's very guitar-led or can be. The interpretation now is you know, Cuban music is very much one tunes on the piano, and Brazilian music has the kind of the guitar sound.

Geoff 9:13

Brazilian music, what's the percussion that's used traditionally in Brazilian music?

Marc 9:17

So that would stem from the Brazilian carnival. Um, one of the obvious things is, you know, when you're playing Cuban music, you're usually standing still. So the congas are quite heavy. Timbales are on a stand, bongos, you need to sit.

Geoff 9:30

Yeah.

What Makes a Pandeiro Special

Marc 9:30

Um when you're playing Brazilian music, it often most of it stems from the carnival, so you're walking along. So you've got these massive surdo drums, big kind of tin drums, yeah. Um, but they're really light. And you have a strap and you walk, so it's all portable. You know, good pandeiros, they're they're portable. And rhythmically, you know, in simple terms, a lot of Cuban music focuses on the second half of beat two as the strongest beat, and Brazilian music is far more steady. You know, you you've got the Bossa Nova and the Samba, where it where it's kind of it lands more on there's lots of syncopation, but it lands more on the beat. It's actually more different than a lot of people think. I think a lot of people think Latin music, yeah, and it's it's all in that.

Geoff 10:09

Now you're holding in your hand, um, as you mentioned earlier, a uh a pandeiro. So just explain what that is.

Marc 10:15

So a pandeiro is it's really a Brazilian tambourine. The difference being from a tambourine that you can tune it. Tambourines are you usually have tacks in the side, and so it's a fixed head, this you can tune it up and down. You know, they go all different sizes. This is quite a small one, as I said, it's Robin's one, and you can change the tone by using your thumb or your fingers underneath.

Geoff 10:38

So you're holding it in your left hand and you're pressing into the skin with your thumb just to tighten, yeah. Tighten it, right? Okay.

Marc 10:45

Your thumb on the top to push it down or your finger underneath, but either way, you're tightening the skin.

Geoff 10:49

I can see the little um grubby mark on the skin where it's where you hold it.

Marc 10:54

Well, this, that's actually um

Geoff 10:56

no underneath. Underneath.

Marc 10:57

Oh, yeah, yeah, that's yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But the mess on this side is actually um beeswax uh because you use it to play a roll.

Geoff 11:06

Oh, crickey.

Marc 11:07

And you need the grip. So this side won't.

Geoff 11:10

So you get some resistance to oh wow, you're just pushing your finger across it, right?

Marc 11:15

Yeah. So that's that's on purpose.

Geoff 11:17

And what's the what's the principles of playing that thing then? You don't obviously don't just shake it, you can shake it.

Marc 11:23

So you kind of hold keep your left hand fairly stable and your right hand, you there's various stages, but you would play right on the edge and rock the bottom of your hand and your fingers backwards and forwards. I don't know how you'd explain that for someone that's gonna be.

Geoff 11:35

No, that's perfect, yeah.

Marc 11:37

So that gives you a basic kind of pulse, if you like. Um, and then you use your thumb for open notes.

Geoff 11:47

To play the play the drum part of it.

Marc 11:48

Yeah, and then sometimes you tip the drum and catch it with your fingers.

Geoff 11:52

Right.

Marc 11:53

So you've got various different sounds and they go together, so you and then you can and again lots of it comes from the kind of carnival thing. You have these big steel shakers in the carnival, which would give you the semi-quavers, so that is sort of interpreting that, and you get the surdo drums which kind of go gagat, gegum. So that gives you your kind of

Geoff 12:36

but that's not metronomic, is it, what you're playing? It's a v there's a drag to it, isn't there?

Marc 12:40

Yeah, there's I mean, again, that's something that you kind of I think I had a lesson, well, I had a few lessons with Bosco years ago, and uh and I was trying to get that swing. And I was trying and trying, and I can't remember quite how he put it, but it was something along the lines of like that's okay, and I went, Yeah, but it's not like you, and he went, yeah. He said, You but you grew up with a telly and I grew up with Brazilian music. So it was a bit like for an English person, it's all right. It's all right, you know, it's not it, but it's all right. Yeah, uh yeah. So there's a so it will fit with the metronome.

Geoff 13:20

Well the downbeats do, but all the bits in between kind of

Marc 13:23

moves.

Pandeiro Play Along Performance

Geoff 13:24

Yeah, it's like a wave. Yeah, they talk about like a rolling egg. I think so. You know. That's amazing. Well, I'd quite like to hear you play that on something actually.

Marc 13:34

Okay.

Geoff 13:34

Shall I get a track sorted out for you and then we'll play along. Let's play along. Fantastic. So we're gonna play Só Danço Samba. Okay, and it's gonna be great. So here it comes. Such a good sound, isn't it?

Marc 14:42

It's good fun, isn't it?

Building The Quartet Jazz Play Along Apps

Geoff 14:43

Yeah, really great. We recently recorded volume seven of uh of the Quartet apps.

Marc 14:48

We did,

Geoff 14:49

Which you remember, and uh I'm looking forward to that. It'll be out later this year when I once I start mixing it.

Marc 14:55

But um I think we played everything I own.

Geoff 14:58

What was interesting about that is I sent you all the reference tracks and you went through them all and you decided all the different kinds of percussion that was that was to be played.

Marc 15:06

Um I mean we haven't done an app before, have we? But we've done recordings before. Yeah. And you always send out kind of reference stuff. Yeah. And you know, I gathered the pace of the recording. I mean, actually I didn't, but I had a guess.

Geoff 15:18

You didn't know what was in you were in for!

Marc 15:20

No, no, I I thought it was gonna be fairly full on, but it was more than I expected.

Geoff 15:24

The the hard work will pay off because the the volume seven is going to be a game-changing app, I think. We're gonna go to six channels rather than four channels. Guitar, piano, drums, bass, and percussion. So, and a soloist as well. So um, yeah, it's a game changer.

Marc 15:41

It'll be a really good teaching thing, actually, because I use the uh I use the swing apps already because of yeah, well, and I teach a lot of kit as well, and it's really difficult to find good material to play along with because you either get someone's recorded something, so then it's not quite in time, and it's difficult with with students because they're obviously I mean none of us are perfectly in time, but they're they're students, they're less in time, so you do want them to be playing with something that's absolute, and I think playing along with recordings is fantastic for language and for the experience of playing, but it's not fantastic for time because you're at the mercy who of whoever's playing and music moves, you know. I suppose we're in the pursuit of trying to get what you hear to come out, and I don't think it necessarily has to be metronomic, but the more accurately the you you aim for, the you know the better you can deliver. So it's not it's I don't think you're pursuing playing in perfect time, but you're pursuing being able to deliver what you hear clearly, and I think that requires something like a metronome, but playing, you know, for students, playing with a metronome, I mean I I've had many students that uh in the past have gone, oh I'm not that, it's just a horrible experience. So whereas what your app's done is both, you know, you've got the experience of someone really playing, but it's absolutely in time. I often use the jazz ones, um, and I turn everything off, and they just play with with you on the bass. And first of all, we're just doing time and playing and different tempos, but then obviously you can use the form, which you can do on real recordings, but often this there's too much. I I remember playing along to stuff when I was, you know, when I was a kid and I was learning, it's just really exciting because of everything that's going on. But that actually doesn't make it easy to learn, you get carried off in it, which is a lovely thing. But when you're going, I need to do this, and I want to get my time better, and I want to the you know, I want to develop my comping and stuff, it's that balance of you know, inspiring by the fact that it is someone playing, but it's a good lead to aim towards in terms of time. So I use I use those a lot.

Geoff 17:47

Excellent, yeah. And I think also the challenge when we're in the studio is make it sound like we're not playing with a click. And we've all had enough experience playing with a click to hopefully achieve that, you know. Um

Marc 18:00

you can let me know when you've mixed it.

Geoff 18:05

Yeah, but but you've got to get that rolling thing, you know, that rolling thing inside the grid and make it sound human, you know.

Marc 18:11

But I suppose that must be a challenge mixing them because you need to have it all in time, but not rinse it of any human input.

Geoff 18:20

I think you'd be surprised. I think it's not that difficult. You know, if you get if you get good players that can actually play on the beat in the in time, then it's not a it's not a problem, you know.

Marc 18:29

So do you approach it by adjusting as little as possible, or do you how do you

Geoff 18:34

I don't even think about it. When I'm playing with a click now, I've done it so much.

Marc 18:37

Oh no, I don't mean I mean when you're so with regards to the app, when you've got all the tracks and you've got the recording and and you're going right now, I'm going to um you know create the tracks out of this, to what degree do you do you have a kind of plan for the amount of adjustments?

Geoff 18:53

The only time I adjust stuff is at loop points. So at the end of a chorus, so say it's a 32-bar form, if if the intensity is increased too much and it has to repeat back to the first bar again, you don't want to have a noticeable drop in volume.

Marc 19:10

Sure.

Geoff 19:10

So sometimes I will adjust the volume or take a bit of the drumming from the middle so it sounds uniform. But aside from that, I make sure that the edit points are bang on. Um, you know, there's no anticipations out of the you know into the last bar. But once all that's sorted out, then usually it's fine. Because we all know what we're doing, we've done enough.

Marc 19:29

Yeah, enough.

Geoff 19:30

We've done nearly 800 tunes by volume seven. So that's a lot of a lot of recording.

Marc 19:36

Oh, that'd be exciting to be interested here.

Quickfire Questions Plus Fishing and Wrap

Geoff 19:38

Yeah, I'll play you some of it actually after this if you want to hear. Right, okay, so I've got some questions which I ask everyone.

Marc 19:52

Okay.

Geoff 19:52

Okay. First question: what's your favourite album?

Marc 19:55

One of my favourite albums is Monty Alexander Live at the Montreux Festival. It's just because of the swing feel on it. It's uh again in my learning of kind of jazz and swing stuff, I I I felt there was a real difference in when I was in college and stuff, there was a kind of right, there's funk music and groove music, and that you have to be really in time and really accurate. And there's jazz music, and you just have to be really clever and play complicated stuff.

Geoff 20:21

Not true though, is it?

Marc 20:22

No, but I I never kind of got that. I sort of saw them as the same.

Geoff 20:26

Right.

Marc 20:27

I went, you know, and a really good jazz, you know, like a really good funk thing really grooves, and a really good jazz thing really.

Geoff 20:34

Just really grooves, yeah.

Marc 20:35

And has its own thing. And that album to me, it just flies, every track.

Geoff 20:40

Well, Monty Alexander comes out of that Jamaican kind of thing, doesn't it? He's got a very deep pocket.

Marc 20:46

Yeah, and that's the whole thing. And I listen to that and go, I mean, we all play how we play, but if someone said, give me one thing you would aim for, I'd like to listen to that.

Geoff 20:54

I think that And that's just a piano trio believe, is it?

Marc 20:57

Yeah, it's it's I think it's absolutely incredible. So probably that album.

Geoff 21:00

Excellent. Well, I'll check that out. Question two Is there a musician alive or dead that you'd like to play with?

Marc 21:07

I would like to, but it's a strange one, actually, because it's a drummer. I would like to play percussion with Steve Gadd on drums. Because I've heard so because you know I've got millions of albums. I know a couple of people that have played with him, and they've just said it's an unexplainable thing. Because he's quite old now. People that are playing with him are going, he's better. He's not getting old and worse, he's getting old and better from already amazing. Yeah, you know, and so I would like to experience that. Superb.

Geoff 21:38

Great. And you'd play percussion with him, right? Anyone you'd like to play drums, you'd be playing drums with.

Marc 21:43

Oh no, Monty Alexander. Love to do that. Yeah. Yeah.

Geoff 21:47

Yeah, of course. Question three. What would you say was the highlight of your career so far?

Marc 21:53

I think there's been lots, kind of different musical experiences that you're kind of not expecting. So I I had one years ago when I was at college. I used to go to the 606 all the time, see various people play. One of them was Liane Carroll, who's who we both know, who's amazing, brilliant, bonkers. But I didn't know her then. And I got called for a gig, I think I was just out of college, and I just got, can you can you come and play? Yeah, yeah. And then I think the night before they were like, Oh, it's this singer, piano player, Liane, someone or other. And I was like, not Liane Carroll? There we go. I was like, oh my god! And I literally, it was a lovely, lovely one actually. Um, it was in a pub down near me. I'd never met her before, and my interpretation of this might be wrong, but I got the impression, she was a bit nervous of having a band or a drummer kind of thrown into the mix. I didn't really fully understand, but I think what had happened is she had been booked and she said she'd come with her husband Roger, who's bass player. And I think the person running the gig thought that's not a proper band, I'm gonna book a drummer. And sort of, I think it was slightly forced on her.

Geoff 22:56

Right.

Marc 22:56

You know, so I went in and I stayed up for a kind of a couple of days, and I think she had two albums, and I transcribed all of it. And I really would have I'm ready to go.

Geoff 23:06

Bless you, and uh and of course she didn't play any of it, right?

Marc 23:09

Well, so this is the story. So I I went in, so she was lovely, and she was kind of like, right, I'll probably do the first half by myself, and then I'll get Roger up for the second half. So it transpired that I was gonna play about two tunes, you know, and then we'll get you up at the end and and uh blah blah blah. And I you know, and then she played about two tunes, and I was talking to Roger and he was like, Do you know any of this stuff? And I went, actually I've I know all of it. And he stopped the gig. Well he didn't stop the gig, but he went up to her and went, get him up. He's done it, you know, he's he's ready, get him up. So she did, and I did virtually the whole gig and did a couple more because of it. So that was a real you know, it mattered a lot at the time.

Geoff 23:43

Yeah, yeah.

Marc 23:44

Um that that was a lovely thing.

Geoff 23:46

So preparation has always been a thing for you, has it? You've always been

Marc 23:49

as much as you can, yeah. I mean, I read okay, but there's plenty of people that read better. So I like to, you know, like you know, with our thing, it's it well, I probably spent three or four hours going through the tracks, which but it it it's more for me to be comfortable in the play. Yeah, you know, I'm sure I could have done your recordings without any prep because a lot of it changed, but I felt better coming to it having done some prep. Yeah, um

Geoff 24:17

it was appreciated as well. So yeah, it's more

Marc 24:19

so that was that was one starting the lessons and working with Robin for 20 odd years, because that that he was just such an interesting guy. Um, and I I think those characters are disappearing now. I think that's a generational thing. Rightly or wrongly, had he had a really clear picture of how he thought his music should be played. You know, it wasn't a democracy at all. It was kind of I want it like this. And I kind of endorse that to a degree because I think there's one side where you go, I'm me, you've booked me, this is what I bring to the gig. And that's great. And lots of people work like you know, we're playing with Derek tonight. He works like that, doesn't he? He does it, he rarely tells you what to play. Yeah, he just can't see in and you you do what you do. But there's other people that have of a picture of what they want, and I don't think that's at the expense of you doing what you do. I think you can still do that, and I think if you kind of endorse it, it allows gigs to be different and to have their own character. So I think it's it's kind of a nice thing where one person's got a vision and they're going, we're all trying to get to here.

Geoff 25:21

But that's traditionally, that's you know, the role of a conductor or that's the role of a band leader, isn't it? To to direct

Marc 25:26

but I do find occasionally people don't like that.

Geoff 25:29

Right, I agree.

Marc 25:30

You know, this kind of like, well, you put me, I'll do this.

Geoff 25:32

Yeah, yeah.

Marc 25:33

You know, yeah, whereas I I I did all the stuff with Robin for all those years, and the more I did, I went through, you know, I was his student for a long time. So when I started playing in his band, my approach to the music was his approach. Essentially, my choice of rhythms and things that I would play were I suppose perfect for his band because they'd all come from him.

Geoff 25:52

Yeah.

Marc 25:52

And then I learnt more stuff from other people, and I suppose there was a period of time where there was a little bit of friction because I was doing other things, and he was kind of, yeah, not on this gig.

Geoff 26:02

Right.

Marc 26:02

You know what I want, do that. And then it went further still, you know, I'd learnt other things and I was comfortable going that gig, I do that. It's whatever I I mean, Derek's a good example, you know. I do like and you've done it, Latin band with Derek, I just do whatever I want. It's there's no yeah, um, so I it was nice to play different gigs in, you know, be yourself, but

Geoff 26:25

I think that's a good lesson there about just discipline as a being a musician, isn't there? Yeah. That's the whole thing, isn't it? You know when to take liberties and when to when to be a rank and file.

Marc 26:35

But I also don't think it's one or the other. I don't think it's be yourself or do as you're told. I think you can do as you're told, and you can bring what you bring within what someone's asking for, which I think is nice. So yeah, that was that's probably many others that I could think of.

Geoff 26:50

Well, okay, question four. What would you say was your musical weakness?

Marc 26:54

Oh, loads. Reading, probably. I could be I could do more on that. I think with the Latin thing, you can always do more. This this it doesn't end. You don't you don't get to the end. I know a lot of stuff, and I know a lot more than people that don't play it until you put me in a room with someone that comes from Brazil or comes from Cuba, and then it sort of pales into insignificance. So I mean I think it's easier to go, what are you strong at than what are you you know?

Geoff 27:21

But that wasn't the question.

Marc 27:22

No, it wasn't. I could improve on I could be better at loads of things.

Geoff 27:27

Okay. Uh, question five. Do you ever get nervous on stage?

Marc 27:30

Yeah. Yeah.

Geoff 27:32

Really?

Marc 27:32

Um, less so now. I used to get really bad. Yeah, and I don't really know why.

Geoff 27:37

But it's obviously not being unprepared because we talked about that.

Marc 27:40

No, and that's what's strange. You'd think when I was younger, and I don't know if this is a general thing, you're very, very kind of aware, and maybe falsely aware, of what you think other people might be thinking. And so you're there as a kind of out-of-college thing of just going, I just want everyone to think I'm really good, and I just want to do whatever makes everyone think I'm really good. So you're trying to suss what they want rather than just play.

Geoff 28:02

I think all musicians think like that, don't they? We're all a bit insecure, aren't we?

Marc 28:06

Yeah, and I think when you get, you know, I mean, for me it was kind of having kids and stuff like that, and you go, There's bigger things in the world. I don't care, yeah. It's fine. And I, you know, I care just as much, but I also think I'm alright. So enough people like what I do. Some people I don't know them, but some people probably don't, and you know, I I think I fall, I'm kind of satisfied with where I seem to fall in things. So, you know, I look at gigs that I'm not on, and I look at maybe the drummers that are on them, and I think, yeah, I'd pick him. He's great. So, yeah.

Geoff 28:35

That's very generous of you. Have you ever been starstruck?

Marc 28:40

I don't think so. No. No, I've enjoyed the company of people that I think are amazing, but it's just been a really lovely experience. When I did the Rhythm Six Festival, it was kind of all the best drummers from around the world. And they were all really generous and they were all really chatty. I was kind of the other way. I didn't have nothing to say, I had plenty to say and plenty to ask. And uh, if you mean by starstruck that, oh yeah. No, I didn't know.

Geoff 29:05

That's good.

Marc 29:06

I was the annoying one.

Geoff 29:07

Cool. What's your favourite sandwich?

Marc 29:11

Very good. I don't know. You can't narrow it down on food, there's too much choice. Steak sandwich, medium rare steak sandwich.

Geoff 29:18

I was in Tokyo last week. I'll show you a picture of the sandwich I had. Right. It's Cherm side Sandwich Bar, it's massive on TikTok or somewhere. Someone took me to it. You know the Carnegie Deli in America? Yeah. You know that place in New York? They have a very famous pastrami sandwich, it's about six inches high. This was a similar thing. It was beautiful wagyu beef. Rare beef in this huge sandwich. It was ridiculously full of fat, but it was absolutely delicious. Yeah. Steak sandwich is great. A favourite movie?

Marc 29:47

Because my kids are still quite young, so I'm watching a lot with them. So they've just seen uh you know, Shawshank Redemption? I just watched that with them, and it's just a great film. And that's so

Geoff 29:56

it's obviously one of the best movies ever made, isn't it? But um, I watched it with my kids as well. Yeah, I sat down with them. How old are your kids?

Marc 30:03

Uh, 13 and 11.

Geoff 30:05

Exactly. So at the same age, I I I sat my kids down, I said, kids, we're gonna watch this film. This is the best film ever made, and they just sat and watched it transfixed. Yeah. And then the big surprise at the end, the big reveal at the end, it was like, it is the best movie ever made, isn't it?

Marc 30:21

It's fantastic. Yeah, but I like all of those, you know. But I think what I enjoy is the prospect of watching it with them and seeing how they perceive it.

Geoff 30:29

I had a similar experience with West Side Story. I I showed the kids that for the first time, which is obviously a classic film. Yeah, but you're right, it's the shared experience, isn't it? Yeah. Do you watch a lot of films?

Marc 30:39

I watch a lot of telly when I'm knackered as a wind down. A lot of it involves falling asleep and waking up at the end and going, Oh, was it good? You know, more as a yeah, you know, I like to watch films, but but no, I don't.

Geoff 30:51

Yeah, yeah. What about a favourite venue to play in?

Marc 30:55

I quite like the 606, because it's a kind of it's a proper little jazz club, and it is. I quite like that you walk in and you know, we both know Steve that runs it, and he's usually there. It's it's not falling towards the the corporate side of things, and I I quite like it there.

Geoff 31:10

Yeah, amazing. Seven nights a week, he's still going, it's amazing. Have you travelled much? What about a favourite city?

Marc 31:15

I haven't travelled loads. I quite I'm well, we went to New York a few years ago, that was fantastic. Um, we just went for a little for a little break.

Geoff 31:22

Was that your first time there in New York?

Marc 31:24

Yeah, and my wife booked all the daytimes and I booked all the nights. So I just went Just Club, Just Club, Just Club, Just Club. Yeah, and yeah, no, that that was that was superb, yeah. Yeah. Um like there, like Paris. I've done a little bit in Switzerland and some in France, and I've probably done other stuff that I'm just can't think of now. But yeah, no, no, I haven't done loads.

Geoff 31:45

Uh window or aisle.

Marc 31:46

Oh, window.

Geoff 31:47

Why?

Marc 31:48

See what's going on outside.

Geoff 31:49

I'm the same actually, but most people say aisle, funny enough.

Marc 31:52

Why?

Geoff 31:52

I don't know.

Marc 31:53

Or to get out and yeah. Oh, okay. No, definitely window.

Geoff 31:56

Yeah, I'm a window person.

Marc 31:57

I don't mind asking people to move if I want to get out.

Geoff 31:59

Cats or dogs?

Marc 32:01

I'm really allergic to cats. So definitely dogs.

Geoff 32:04

There's one sitting right next to you now. Yeah. Barney. Um do you have a dog?

Marc 32:08

No.

Geoff 32:08

No. Do your kids want dogs?

Marc 32:10

Yeah.

Geoff 32:12

You gonna get one?

Marc 32:13

No. No, I'd love to, but we're not in enough. It just won't be fair.

Geoff 32:17

Right, right.

Marc 32:18

You know.

Geoff 32:18

What's the most used app on your phone?

Marc 32:21

Um, Google's not an app, really, is it's just a search engine. But uh, I don't know. Probably Swimbooker.

Geoff 32:27

Swim booker?

Marc 32:28

Yeah.

Geoff 32:29

Okay.

Marc 32:30

Because I go fishing a lot and it's an app where you can see what's going on at lakes and what's doing well, and and you know, I'm taking my son, um, not this Monday, next.

Geoff 32:37

Yeah.

Marc 32:38

So we're looking now and going, oh, we could go there, or we could go there. Oh, no one's catching anything from there. Nice. So that's that's I use that quite a lot.

Geoff 32:44

That's a very tranquil thing to do, isn't it? Oh, fish.

Marc 32:47

So far removed from being a musician.

Geoff 32:49

Yeah, it's lovely. How long do you go fishing for then?

Marc 32:51

I mean, you can go for four hours in an afternoon, I can go for three days.

Geoff 32:55

And would you generally catch anything?

Marc 32:57

Yes.

Geoff 32:58

And what would you do with the stuff you catch?

Marc 32:59

Well, if you it depends what what you do. If you go kind of carp fishing, that's on a lake, and you know, the fish are expensive and they go back in the lake and they get very well looked after. Right. So that's a really kind of lovely, tranquil wind down. So I do a lot of that. I've done a lot of sea fishing where it's dinner and it goes home, been to Florida, and you meet the skipper, kind of you go for a week and you meet the skipper, and he and he went, you know, you're here for a week. What do you want to do? There's various options. And I went, Really? He went, yeah, I went, I just want to catch something bigger than me. And uh I said, fine, what do you want to do the next day? And we did on the first day caught something heavier than me.

Geoff 33:35

What, like a blue marlin or something?

Marc 33:36

No, it was a tarpon.

Geoff 33:38

Right, what's that look like?

Marc 33:39

Which is it's kind of a cross between a tuna and a carp, and we caught I caught one on the first day that was 170 pounds. And uh and it's it's interesting, if you're into it, it's interesting fishing because you see a lot of the deeps of the fishing programs where they've got the harness and the rod and the strap to the boat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I didn't really want to do that because you're kind of not doing anything.

Geoff 34:01

But you've got to wrestle with the isn't that the whole muscular thing?

Marc 34:04

Well, you have got to wrestle with it, but you haven't, because if you stand still, nothing happens because you're bolted to the chair, the rod's bolted to you. So if you just do nothing, nothing happens. Whereas this is the biggest fishing you can do where you're literally standing with a rod and you're not fastened to anything. It's kind of a like a big speedboat which is kitted out to do this. You're standing on the front, and I'm trying to wind this fish in, and you know, it takes kind of an hour to wind one in.

Geoff 34:28

Well, that's a physical thing, isn't it?

Marc 34:29

Yeah, it is. You know, we're playing away, and I'm just sort of observing where we are. And I I went to the skipper, are we moving? And you know, you know, if you go on the sea with a re uh re you know, fairly regularly, you kind of know which way the tide's going. So I knew that. I mean, we're moving upstream. Even yeah. The fish was dragging three people and a boat upstream, not quickly, but you you could see a slow movement, you know. So that was quite fun.

Geoff 34:59

That's a big fish.

Marc 35:00

Yeah, it was.

Geoff 35:01

Wow, wow, we were. Um, thanks for your time. Um it was fascinating learning about the uh pandeiro.

Marc 35:06

Oh, pleasure. Good.

Geoff 35:07

It was great.

Marc 35:08

You're welcome.

Geoff 35:09

See you next time.

Marc 35:10

Will do.

Geoff 35:10

Bye.

Marc 35:11

Thanks, Geoff.

Announcement 35:12

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