Welcome and Today’s Guest

Geoff 0:02

Hello Podcats! Geoff Gascoyne here. Hope you're well? Today I'm at home in south London, and uh I've got a wonderful piano player coming around to see me. His name's Tim Lapthorn. He's an amazing piano player, very intense piano player who I've been a fan of for a long time. I just want to get his insight into how he approaches jazz and his chords. So stay tuned until the end with his favourite chord. Okay, here we go.

Learning by Ear From Pop Songs

Announcement 0:50

Taking your jazz play along to another level.

Geoff 0:53

Tim, how are you? All right.

Tim 0:55

Hello, Geoff. Beautiful day to be inside doing a podcast.

Geoff 0:57

I mean we've played together a lot, haven't we? We didn't know very much about your background or about how you start ed. Now's the time.

Tim 1:04

Totally unmusical family. I was forced to learn classical pretty much under duress at the age of four, uh, with a woman named Mrs. Skull.

Geoff 1:12

Funny enough, at school I had a swimming teacher called Mr. Salmons. Yeah. Not quite the same thing,

Tim 1:16

But we used to call her Skull and Crossbones. Because um she was quite terrifying. She kicked my brother out because he couldn't play B flat major and sent him off home crying. Yeah. So that's the kind of education I was uh I was offered to.

Geoff 1:29

What age did you start piano then?

Tim 1:31

Uh four. But I was already sort of trying to just be curious about it. I think for it since I could sit up really.

Geoff 1:37

You had a piano in the house?

Tim 1:38

I had a piano in the house. So the main thing is I'm pretty much self-taught all the jazz, and I don't really even consider it sort of like jazz, I just think of it as just music and how the notes work and harmony together and chords and gradually fumbled my way into jazz via mainly just sort of guys, things like the Beatles and um sort of pop songs. And well, I got a guitar when I was seven. My parents bought actually bought me a guitar again, only because my school teacher said you should buy him a guitar, and they said no, we're not buying a guitar, he'll just throw it away. He won't he won't like it. She said, Trust me, he'll like it. And I loved it. And I spent the whole Christmas just learning Christmas carols and learning different songs. But I realised I could just hear the chords, even at seven, I could hear like a D minor seven and an A7, and then start to think, Oh, that's nice when you go from an E minor seven to an A7. The things like this were already happening.

Geoff 2:28

Yeah.

Tim 2:28

Because I was so interested in that landscape of the harmony, and I didn't think it was anything weird about just being able to hear the chords at all, really, because it just seemed normal. I just picked it up and played the chords, and then that would transfer a bit to the piano. Did theory but in the in the old-fashioned sense. So I knew about triads and inversions and that sort of thing. But then when I realised, I think I heard something like The Power of Love by Huey Lewis and the News.

Geoff 2:57

Great tune.

Tim 2:58

A great tune, and and it was just there was the chord that's it kind of goes it goes. And then this chord was something like this. And I was like, oh, what's that? That's so nice, this F over G or a sus chord, or 11, whatever you want to call it. I thought there's something quite cool about that chord, just the the suspension of it and things, and and that led me down a very, very sort of confused you know avenue of trying to understand harmony in that sort of way, but nobody knew anything about jazz where I lived. I'd never heard of Charlie Parker until I was about 18. But my guitar teacher had a Real Book, and he said, Look, take this, and it was this huge, remember, like thousand-page tome of illegal scribble, and it was actually the vocal Real Book, so it had all the words on it, and it had the chords and it had all the melodies. And I just sort of try and hack my way through tunes like the Days of Wine or something, it would have the melody, and I'd be trying to trying to make chords out of just simply out of what I could, what I knew, yeah, very slowly.

Geoff 4:00

What age are we talking about?

Tim 4:01

About 10 or 11 or something.

Geoff 4:02

Well, it's quite early for jazz, isn't it?

Tim 4:04

It was very, very limited, but the point is I stuck with it and gradually you fill in the gaps like a child learns a language, you know. You start off, I think you just have to go for it with jazz. You're kind of fumbling in the dark, but everyone, everyone kind of is. And and then when I started to hear like Louis Armstrong playing with Oscar Peterson, this is when I was about 15 or something, I heard a few things like guitarists like George Benson, but still very, very was very unsure about how to go about exploring it. And then I think I used to go into the bookshops. There's a bookshop in Cambridge called Dylan's, and they had a big jazz section, and then there was a Penguin discography or reviews of all the jazz albums, and I just looked for all the ones that had a crown, which meant it was some of the best albums ever. And I literally looked through, found the Bill Evans Live at Village Vanguard, for example. All these things. So I'd go out and buy those CDs, and then my way of learning would be mainly through just listening endlessly and playing along. And I did that for about 15 years. I would just put on a CD and play along to it and try and emulate. People go, Why how can you play along? And it doesn't it bother you that that that's that those other people are soloing, you know, on the record. And I'll be no, I'll try and sort of join in. And and if Herbie's playing a nice solo, I sort of try and pick up little bits and emulate it, get the spirit of it.

Geoff 5:29

Yeah, sure.

Tim 5:30

Rather than actually uh meticulously stroking transcribing lines, which a lot of people do, and that's cool. I just wanted to try and at that point anyway get the feeling of it uh and just be part of that. And obviously, you've got a great rhythm section, it's gonna feel nice.

Geoff 5:43

So you grew up in Cambridge, when did you come to London?

Guildhall Years and London Gigs

Tim 5:46

I came to London in uh 1999. I I got into The Guildhall postgraduate jazz course, which at the time was probably the best in Europe, it was brilliant, loved it.

Geoff 5:56

That's just a one-year, right?

Tim 5:57

A one year postgrad, and as I hadn't studied music before, I did French and philosophy at Leeds University. A levels before that, not even music.

Geoff 6:05

Clever chap, bloody hell!

Tim 6:06

And then went to Guildhall. Just just just tried it out, really, tried out the audition to see.

Geoff 6:11

Was it useful? Was it

Tim 6:12

Very useful, yeah.

Geoff 6:13

You met some great people there?

Tim 6:14

Met good people, uh uh people like Pete Churchill, Nikki, and Simon Purcell, all all all told me things that I needed to know about sort of more sophisticated voicings and just how to sort of create line with describing the harmony and sort of being at a higher level than sort of what I was, definitely.

Geoff 6:34

And then you started working, I suppose. Did you start working as a side man or did you start leading your own trio?

Tim 6:38

At the beginning, I always wanted to do a trio, and I did do quite a few albums early on. Um, one called Outlines, which is with Tom Herbert and Pat Lavette, and that was 2002. That's pretty much you can't find it, I don't think. I I I sold the last few copies online a few years ago, uh actually just on eBay, on eBay, on Facebook, on Facebook not eBay, Facebook. I just said, Does anyone want to buy these last ten copies? Uh and and then I did one called Natural Language with Tom and Pat two years later, and then a trio with Arnie Somogyi and Steve Keo, with whom I did two other recordings, and the last one of those was back in 2010 or something. I started out doing that alongside quite a lot of side, mainly sideman work, yeah. And then I did some quite sort of higher profile gigs with with uh like Eddie Henderson and Ian Shaw. Did lots of Ronnie Scott's house band and trio, and I must have done f two or three hundred gigs at Ronnie Scott's.

Geoff 7:41

Well, in those days you could they used to put on a trio, didn't they?

Tim 7:44

They used to have a trio, uh yeah, just before the main act, and it was great because it was 45 minutes, got to play to a good silent room normally. And then they also had the late show, and I'd sometimes do that with all sorts of Steve Fishwick, Brandon Allen, Jenya Struya, all sorts of people, and you get kind of lots of Americans come and sort of strutting their stuff. And uh it was good, it was good, good to do, good to do, good times. I did lots of gigs, basically playing one every week.

New Trio Album and Abbey Road

Geoff 8:12

And um this brings us around to you, you just made a new CD, haven't you?

Tim 8:15

I have for the first time in about 13 years. Basically, but I had family that took up a lot of time, and I don't know, I just I I I got a bit uh I got a bit depressed to be honest, about 2009 to do with um coming off some medication and and it really upset me and um I couldn't really sort of get motivated for a long time.

Geoff 8:36

Right, right.

Tim 8:36

And I was sort of dealing with two young children and and then once I did start get going again, then we had a sort of pandemic and great timing. I didn't really uh it didn't really do anything, but then the last year I finished uh I did do a trio album with uh Darren Beckett on drums and um Conor Chaplin on bass.

Geoff 8:55

Great.

Tim 8:55

Uh and it's come out come out nicely. So that's going to be called Between, and it's uh will be out later in the year.

Geoff 9:04

Fantastic,

Tim 9:04

Probably autumn or something like that.

Geoff 9:06

Right, that's just a trio, is it?

Tim 9:07

There's one thing with strings, uh, which I actually did. I did the piano recording at Abbey Road Studio 2, which is great. Great, really good piano C , Yamaha C FX. Probably the best grand piano in the world because I've played all the nice Steinway D's, they're amazing. This is next level from Steinway D.

Geoff 9:25

How did you get to go into Abbey Road? Apart from paying for it! Is there any special kind of ...

Tim 9:30

I didn't get any I tried to get the downtime thing, you know, maybe you would have been able to help me or something else. But it was tricky, it was like I didn't want to have to rely on favours and sort of doing it in the end. I just paid for a day's piano there. It wasn't as bad as you might think. But it was like it's great to play in that that studio the, where the Beatles recorded, and

Geoff 9:49

incredible, yeah.

Tim 9:50

Um and you just feel a nice sound space in there, and um

Geoff 9:55

You just feel the history of the history.

Tim 9:57

I just played about t I recorded about 20 tracks, loads of that is still in the can to come. I've got loads of solo stuff. I took took one or two things for this album, I added strings, well, I say strings, string quartet, and and that I did after the I'd done the piano, I tracked the the string quartet in relation to what I played, so it's quite interesting because I I'd shape the lines of the viola or something around an inner piano part or something.

Geoff 10:20

Yeah, amazing.

Tim 10:21

So you get this kind of this seemingly um improvised counterpoint or something like that. Yeah. So I did that, and there's a solo one that I did there, but that was a few years ago now. I've really dragged my heels.

Geoff 10:35

Well, it's great, this is a new beginning for you, isn't it?

Tim 10:37

It's a new uh yeah, and it's just nice to play with nice musicians, or good musicians, they're normally like really nice guys and just um get on well, and we don't, you know, you don't spend hours dissecting the music, you just have a beer and have a chat, you know. Yeah, absolutely when music comes out.

Geoff 10:53

Wow, I can't wait to hear that. Fantastic.

Reharmonising Yesterdays on Piano

Geoff 11:02

Right, so I asked you to pick a tune to play. What did you pick up?

Tim 11:06

Well, I'm gonna I think I'm gonna have a go at Yesterdays. I haven't exactly been practicing it, but it's something I should know.

Geoff 11:11

Okay, tell us about Yesterdays then.

Tim 11:13

I don't know much about it. Uh who wrote it? I should know.

Geoff 11:16

Jerome Kern , is it?

Tim 11:17

Jerome Kern um, yeah. It's a good tune because a lot of these standards, if you treat them right, they offer a lot of possibilities just by the nature of their the relationships of the of the chords. This one has a lot of uh a circular thing, it goes round a cycle of fifths, and um I'll try and sort of basically show how that can you can play a lot on that by sort of as a piano player, you know, you we have the luxury slightly of so if it goes um which it does. So it's a seven chords there, so A 7 to D7. We'd normally do a seven here, but there's no reason we can't go um major seven. Or or then then and these kind of weird, you can kind of change the

Geoff 12:08

It doesn't affect the bass notes, does it?

Tim 12:10

It doesn't really affect it because it's all on the axis, tritone axis a lot of the time, or or just you just change the quality of the chord from from seven to major seven or minor to seven to minor or whatever. Anyway, I'll try and sort of uh crowbar about that in.

Geoff 12:25

What's interesting about that is that where the melody goes up, the bass line goes down, right? Da da da da da da.

Tim 12:31

Oh there, yeah, it does. That's like counterpoint. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but it goes Yeah, it does that, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Geoff 12:43

Yeah, yeah, okay, here we go.

Playing Outside and Taking Chances

Geoff 14:27

That was amazing.

Tim 14:28

Thank you.

Geoff 14:28

Uh it just sounds like Herbie Hancock when you play. Do you have kind of concepts for playing outside, or is how does it how does it work when when you're

Tim 14:36

Yeah, this is the thing, which is why these things are quite tricky because you're gonna for me the the thing about jazz is one thing should lead to another. Sounds quite obvious. If you play something and you listen to it properly when you improvise, by being very open and having hope hopefully sort of lots of knowledge from listening and experience, the next thing it should lead you to something else by being open. So one line leads to another uh as a natural consequence.

Geoff 15:05

Natural flow.

Tim 15:06

Natural flow. Yeah. So the flow uh will often dictate those kind of out lines and things because it might be a a motif motific idea that is transposed or something instantly, or just something that in the nate in the nature of its own story will f will follow, even if it doesn't necessarily sort of isn't obvious if that makes sense. It it it can it can one thing can flow to another.

Geoff 15:30

But there's so much um so much intensity when you play that, it's great.

Tim 15:34

Oh, thank you. Yeah.

Geoff 15:35

That's great. I mean I can see it as well, you're slightly out of breath as well, and uh you're kind of

Tim 15:40

Yeah, well I I really get into it.

Geoff 15:41

Put everything into when you play, which is which you don't see in everyone, it's just a great it's a great thing to watch.

Tim 15:48

Thank you, Geoff. Yeah, this is another thing. I mean I don't want to bang on about it, but when you've been really, really low mentally and depressed and everything, and you've you've literally sort of uh nearly or skirted death as it were, you can, it doesn't matter. Like the music doesn't matter. It's like no one's gonna die in a sense. So you can take more chances or at least be just like what what's the worst that's gonna happen?

Geoff 16:13

Well, music is therapy, isn't it?

Tim 16:15

It is a kind of therapy, but we can beat ourselves up about that for years, you know what I mean? We can be very jazz is very exposed, it's a very it can make you feel vulnerable and stuff, and if you're not feeling some feeling it, you can't it can't happen, and that makes you feel more sort of clogged up, as it were. Yeah. But all I'm saying is when I realize that when I've had my perspective changed about life, you it's a bit like pin people have had a terrible illness or something. They well it kind of is a terrible illness.

Geoff 16:43

Yeah, sure, yeah.

Tim 16:44

You put it in perspective, it's like, well, this is really not a big deal, you know, if somebody doesn't like my solo or something, or I play a bad night deep, I'll get over it. No one's gonna die. And that helped that's helped me a lot. So you just you just go for it.

Geoff 16:57

Do people ever ask you to play a certain way or anything like that? Like would they say play less or Bebop or something or something?

Tim 17:04

But I think that it gets to the stage when people, when they book you, they know what they're getting. Yeah, I I wouldn't take too kindly to someone sort of trying to tell me too much about how to play. Because I just think we'll get somebody else. Um I mean, I don't I don't I wouldn't be rude or anything, but I just think I just can't do gigs where I don't like the music basically. Yeah, yeah. So if people call me and say, Do you want to do a gig I've got to play some certain tunes I don't like, I won't I wouldn't want to do it.

Geoff 17:30

Yeah, yeah. Amazing. Well that's that's so it's amazing to hear you play, fantastic.

Tim 17:35

Thank you, Geoff.

Quickfire Questions and Jazz Life

Geoff 17:37

Right, I've got some questions that I ask everybody.

Tim 17:39

Yes, yes.

Geoff 17:40

And the first question is, what's your favourite album?

Tim 17:43

Well, the one I listen to the most, uh and I think it is it's not exactly a mast, well it is a masterpiece in a way, but I've always go back to Miles Alive at the Plugged Nickel.

Geoff 17:53

Right.

Tim 17:54

Because it's again it's this spontaneity. It's a very strange time. I think it's 65, 1965. And um this is the time when jazz was really well, someone like Miles Davis who became well was a kind of superstar-ish in the 50s, and then later on, that their careers were sort of it it it was the lowest, as it were, like that there's about 14 people in the room you can kind of hear, and they do four sets every night. I mean, it's just standards. Uh so it's good for this pod actually, because that's a great album. With they just play things like If I Were a Bell and Green Dolphin Street, Autumn Leaves. I would say that Miles isn't really on it, uh, but it sounds to me like he's been taking lots of substances because he just does it, he does a couple of choruses, then does the turnaround and then sort of ducks out, probably goes off to the loo. Yeah or whatever.

Geoff 18:43

But the rhythm section is

Tim 18:44

incredible. Yeah. It's incredible. The rhythm section is incredible, and it's just as I say, it's it feels its way through a bit like what I was talking about before, or organically. It one thing leads to another. So I love that, I love that album. Um I will tell you a quick story. Uh I played with Ron Carter and I asked him I asked him about it, yeah, but he didn't like it because they don't want to talk about their old stuff like Miles. He just wanted to probably talk about his new project. I should have gone in and gone, hey Ron, I love your new album or whatever. But I was stupid, I'd have made a mistake of talking about Miles, and he immediately got defensive. And I said, Oh, Miles sounded a bit really bit out of it on that. And he's like, I very much doubt that. Okay. Uh just ouch. Yeah, it was a bit chippy, yeah. But um, but anyway, I played Autumn Leaves with Miles with uh Ron Carter.

Geoff 19:30

Fantastic. How was that?

Tim 19:31

Oh great, yeah, yeah.

Geoff 19:32

But that by that rhythm section, it's it's Herbie Hancock, uh, Ron Carter and Tony Williams, isn't it?

Tim 19:37

It's Ron Carter, Tony Williams, and Wayne Shorter's on as well. Um and Herbie, yeah.

Geoff 19:41

But just to hear this, it's something like six discs, isn't it? That the whole thing is just too much.

Tim 19:46

I bought it mainly for Herbie's comping.

Geoff 19:49

Right.

Tim 19:49

Because it's so clean in a sense. I mean it's dirty as well. There's a darkness, and he plays so when you when you accompany, you you don't really want to be too much up here, you know. If you're to if you were to do something up here, comping is in the way up there, but if you kind of if you're in this nice zone here, yeah, yeah, yeah. It is a bit it's darker and it's kind of less intrusive, and the horn can kind of float on the top.

Geoff 20:14

Yeah.

Tim 20:14

So I was trying to learn much more about mid to low range sort of accompanying, comping on the piano, mainly as and as a masterclass in that.

Geoff 20:22

Yeah, sure.

Tim 20:23

I mean apart from everything else.

Geoff 20:24

I mean it goes it goes pretty out there, doesn't it?

Tim 20:26

It goes out and they take their time. There's like 20 minutes on on if I Were a Bell or something. So you get some explorations going on, yeah. And what I say, what I love about it is that it's kind of no, like it's a low-stakes gig in a sense. It's not this big, I mean the Live at the Fillmore on it is amazing, it's it's incredible, it sounds amazing. Sounds but this is just like a club date with them just jamming really on standards. So highly recommended.

Geoff 20:55

Excellent, excellent choice. Right, question number two is there a musician alive or dead that you'd like to play with?

Tim 21:01

I'd love to play with a like a drummer like Brian Blade or something like that. Is he a nice? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just I love good drummers and stuff. I heard that Gregory Hutchinson, he was sounding good, he's got something coming up. He sounds great, isn't it? Yeah, goes like that. And um I've luckily I've played with loads of really nice guys, including one guy that I really want, he wants to do a duo recording, which is John Patitucci.

Geoff 21:24

Oh, okay.

Tim 21:25

And he's like very, very nice player, I think. And like he's really, really nice and really um nice guy again. And so that that I'm gonna try and make that happen.

Geoff 21:33

You should.

Tim 21:34

So that would be like just play with someone really musical.

Geoff 21:37

Here's a question for you would you rather have a great bass player or a great drummer?

Tim 21:41

Oh, Geoff. Personally, I think I think drums, because it's more than one instrument, isn't it? They've got all these different combinations going. I mean, a great bass is it is amazing. I mean I'd take either, really.

Geoff 21:54

If you had to choose?

Tim 21:54

If I had to choose, I don't know. That's something I haven't thought about. I'd probably say a drummer, though, because there are for example, there's album, there's that McCoy Tyner album, Inception, and it's Elvin on drums, and uh someone on bass who isn't amazing is a good uh Taylor or something. No, I what's his name up? Steve Taylor. I know not Steve. Somebody who's good, but not

Geoff 22:15

Jimmy Garrison? No, it's not. Somebody like not not those guys, not the top flight guy. I mean, there's a good example, Jimmy Garrison, of someone who's I mean, he plays his notes are almost random in places.

Tim 22:24

But it's incredible. What is going on there? Yeah, yeah. I know. But anyway, Elvin and the and a slightly subpar bass player, Elvin just carries it.

Geoff 22:32

Yep.

Tim 22:32

Uh and it's funny because it's so strong and it yeah.

Geoff 22:36

Yeah. Question three, uh, what would you say was a highlight of your career?

Tim 22:40

I did a tour in Denmark with on a festival and a jazz house, and that was like I see my name in on a on the jazz house in the in the on the neon or whatever, and that was nice. I played a set with John Patitucci, that was fantastic.

Geoff 22:52

When did you do that?

Tim 22:53

That was about uh that was last year, yeah.

Geoff 22:55

Right. In the UK?

Tim 22:57

Mm-hmm, at The Six, yeah.

Geoff 22:58

How did that come about then?

Tim 23:00

He sat in for a set at The Six, uh, because um a friend friend called uh Dan Reinstein. Yeah. Yeah. So it was um it was fortuitous. Uh it wasn't like he he asked me to come come play with him just to be making that perfectly clear, but he kind of has now, which is nice. Yeah. So um

Geoff 23:18

Wow Um Great contact.

Tim 23:19

It's a good contact. He gave me just, he said, I'm gonna give you my number, let's let's hook up and all that. I was like, alright, great, let's do that. So that that might happen, but as I say, I'm I'm unbelievably sh** at organising things. So um yeah.

Geoff 23:33

Okay, question four, what would you say was your musical weakness?

Tim 23:36

Probably, I get a bit stressed when there's lots and lots of m written music that is like what we call dots, that the the the the the actual notes. I've always had a bit of a with the two two staves and my my coding is is not so fast, but I can just I can learn it quickly. It's just that the for example, once I had to play the whole of Fear Release for some dancer on a gig, and it had to be perfectly in time at the right speed, and they only told me 20 minutes before a gig. But I got it together just by looking at it and and working out hard bits and stuff. My sight reading's okay, but no, yeah, so that sort of thing is definitely my weakness. A lot of people say that, yeah?

Geoff 24:16

Um, do you ever get nervous on stage?

Tim 24:18

Yeah, I have done. I've got a funny story about that one as well. Uh, because I know I haven't been nervous for years. I don't really get that nervous anymore, but I allow for the fact that I could I know that I there will be times when I might get stage fright. Uh, and ironically, one of the times I got most nervous was when I had to play for Kenny Werner, who wrote a whole book on how not to be nervous. And and I read the book, and almost by the fact that the guy had written a book about how to relax during jazz was what was sitting there watching me, made me totally and utterly stiff and useless. Well, I wasn't used to it, but I was just really not relaxed at all.

Geoff 24:55

Wow. So his book was called Effortless Mastery. Yeah?

Tim 24:58

Yeah. And I

Geoff 24:59

kind of a meditation book, isn't it?

Tim 25:01

It's a kind of meditation book. And I took some things from it. There was a one bit about like exercise um where you just drop your fingers on the key through gravity and stuff, and that really helped me. So I I came up to him after the after they set, I said, Hey Kenny man, I wish I'd had a copy of your your book while I was up there, you know, because frankly I'd get really nervous seeing you there. And he and he was like, No, that's fine. I said, then I talked, told him about this exercise. I said, I'd been doing the thing, you know, that exercise where you drop, then he goes like, okay, step one of the uh four-step programme. How are you going on with the other three steps? And I was like, uh I forgot about them. They just went from bad to worse. So I have been nervous. I try not to let those things bother me, and just simple breathing exercises or something can can help. But I did at the beginning, very nervous, yeah.

Geoff 25:47

What about have you ever been starstruck? Not when you played with Patitucci, was it did it feel natural?

Tim 25:52

Natural, yeah, because there were good musicians that are um I haven't really played with anyone I would call an app an actual star.

Geoff 25:59

Have you met any of your heroes though?

Tim 26:01

I don't really wouldn't really say I have heroes, I have influences and stuff. But the thing is that even they are flawed and you know, and everything they do is great.

Geoff 26:12

And they're humans,

Tim 26:13

they're humans, and uh you know, I I I I I'll let you know when I've met one.

Geoff 26:19

Um okay, so what's your favourite sandwich?

Tim 26:21

I like uh simplicity. I like uh like the French baguette with just unsalted butter and ham.

Geoff 26:28

Okay.

Tim 26:29

That's it. Good quality ham.

Geoff 26:30

That's excellent.

Tim 26:31

Nothing else, no condiments.

Geoff 26:33

What's your favourite movie?

Tim 26:34

Back to the Future.

Geoff 26:37

Yeah?

Tim 26:38

No, no, no, I don't know. I'm supposed to say something clever here, I think.

Geoff 26:41

No, no, no, no. Do you watch many movies?

Tim 26:43

Uh I haven't I I do try to, but it's one of those things I can't remember what I've seen that's been really, really good recently. I've been meaning to get into sort of more I like c I do like sort of classic movies. I tell you a great one uh I watched recently which is uh called um Stepbrothers.

Geoff 27:01

Oh, brilliant.

Tim 27:03

Yeah, with with Bon Burgundy. That's my kind of what's the name man?

Geoff 27:07

Will Ferrell and uh John C. Reilly.

Tim 27:10

Yeah, oh something like that. Ridiculous films, frankly. I like those things. Uh Anchorman 2, amazing.

Geoff 27:16

Classics, yeah.

Tim 27:17

Uh yeah, so yeah.

Geoff 27:19

Never get old, do they?

Tim 27:20

No. Very lowbrow Geoff to be honest!

Geoff 27:21

What's the other one? Bridesmaids, you see that one?

Tim 27:23

Bridesmaids, yes, I think so. Yes.

Geoff 27:25

Another classic comedy.

Tim 27:26

Basically, I just need anything old Steve Carell or like those things. They're my they're my thing, my things.

Geoff 27:31

Okay. Like big venues or intimate venues?

Tim 27:37

Much, much, m much prefer smaller venue. Yeah. Somewhere like Pizza Express or or I liked used to like playing at Ronnie's in the older days before. Yeah. And I like the I like The Six because it's like unpretentious and that sort of thing. But I I have played some say like the jazz house in Copenhagen was good because they just really look after you, um, and it's decent piano, amazing guys. Uh in the UK, yeah, to the the above. Yeah.

Geoff 28:07

What about travel? Have you you've travelled much? You've got a favourite city that you like to visit.

Tim 28:12

Um last year I went to Budapest, that was quite interesting. Nice nice thing. Um I'm not massively well travelled, I have played a lot in Europe, and then I've done awful stuff in the Middle East, and I hate that. That's all going to come to an end now, probably. But I haven't really gone very far. I want to go to Australia and do some things there, because I've got loads of contacts in Australia, don't we? Yeah, I've never been to Australia. Never.

Geoff 28:36

I got married in Australia.

Tim 28:38

Uh-huh. Yes, there. Oh, no wonder it's sunny. No wonder it's sunny.

Geoff 28:42

Yeah, it's always sunny. Ah, cool. Window or aisle?

Tim 28:45

Uh aisle, I uh because the view just crap after about minutes anyway.

Geoff 28:50

It's true. Cats or dogs?

Tim 28:52

Both. I'll probably choose dogs.

Geoff 28:54

You don't have a dog?

Tim 28:55

I have two cats, but I've never been in a situation to have a dog.

Geoff 28:58

Okay.

Tim 28:58

But I I I would rather have a dog to be honest. Or I love all animals, especially dogs.

Geoff 29:04

Cool. And what about your most used app on your phone?

Tim 29:08

Probably WhatsApp.

Geoff 29:10

Yeah.

Tim 29:10

No, but uh I use I use in terms of right, I'll show you. Let me think. I do.

Geoff 29:14

It's funny how people use WhatsApp as as the primary now, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Tim 29:19

So no, I mean that was that was a bit of a facetious answer. The uh the the ones that aren't standard ones I use. I use the iReal app. I'm going to start using yours when you give me the code!

Geoff 29:29

I'll do that. I'll do that today!

Tim 29:31

Um, no, it's been on my I I I'm gonna use Quartet. Um and um BBC Sounds, uh, podcasts. I do listen to podcasts, also the podcast app. I'm not really a big tech tech guy. I don't spend a lot of time on the phone, to be honest. Really. It's maybe just news and

Geoff 29:47

which podcasts do you like to listen to?

Tim 29:48

I listen to really I listen to Empire, which is about um a sort of history of well, empires really, I guess, and but more than that, just kind of yeah, how borders have changed and that sort of thing. It's history podcast, really. The rest is politics, into that. I'll listen to

Geoff 30:06

You're gonna listen to yourself

The Favourite Chord Explained

Geoff 30:07

when this comes out.

Tim 30:07

Yeah, now I'm gonna listen to this one, yeah! Yeah, I did listen to I listened to your one today.

Geoff 30:13

Um the final question What's your favourite chord?

Tim 30:17

I'll show you the my favourite chord, and I think I made it up. Oh, I think we should have. I guess we've talked about this one.

Geoff 30:22

Okay, go on.

Tim 30:23

This is this is this is what this is why I've tried it's good in a way to be self-taught because you can kind of make create sometimes your own, breaking the rules. So, how do you harmonise, say you're doing What's New? How do you harmonise a G7 with a B on the top?

Geoff 30:37

Yep?

Tim 30:37

Uh this is the answer. Yeah,

Geoff 30:43

okay, let's one at one at a time

Tim 30:46

with a sharp 11. Um so I'll show you. So that is a sharp uh so G7, seven, nine, natural nine, yeah. Sorry, flat 13, flat nine, three, and that's bizarre because you've got a flat nine and a natural nine, but it it's it just works beautiful beautifully.

Geoff 31:14

And you've got to discover that?

Tim 31:16

I think I just sort of did it by accident, and I was like, what's that? And there are different ways of you can have you can have different kind of versions of of this kind of idea. That's just a minor triad. Um I I I just through necessity, because it's

Geoff 31:31

sorry to interrupt, is there a simpler way to think of that then? You're talking about triads.

Tim 31:34

I asked Pete Churchill about this and he didn't work it, couldn't work it out. He thought it was a composite chord, but it's not because you've got too much going. You have to just call it G7 9 flat nine flat 13. It's more to do with what the relationship within the chord to things are, and there's no horrible clashes. One other quick one which is sit works on the same principle, is something like this, which is um um and that's a sharp nine, not a flat nine, and a natural nine. And in in a in um major seven apart.

Geoff 32:04

Just just tell us what those no tes are?.

Tim 32:06

So that's so this one's a bit easier to build. You just do one, three, so C, E, B flat, and then sharp nine, uh E D sharp, G, A, D, which is natural now. And it's very crunchy, and the ear just kind of goes, what's going on there a little bit? And every time you play it, people give me that look, you're looking like what the but but it it's a solution to a problem that I found.

Geoff 32:36

Right.

Tim 32:37

Really, more than anything else. But I haven't heard it before.

Geoff 32:40

The problem of it, what sounding too bad?

Tim 32:41

The problem of trying trying to harmonise a third or a seventh is really hard because normally you want guide tones lower down.

Geoff 32:48

Yes.

Tim 32:48

So that they so they so they kind of sit in the pic, sonic picture.

Geoff 32:52

Yes.

Tim 32:53

So they are three and seven. Yes. So when you have a a um something like um uh a third at the top, um, like say on All The Things, it's quite hard to to harmonise because they you you either double third or you have to come up with some solution like like doing it sharp nine or or something like altered or something. But the main one here was how do you harmonise a major third on a seven chord? And it was just that's just the best way I found really.

Geoff 33:24

That's gorgeous.

Tim 33:25

It is quite nice, isn't it?

Geoff 33:26

Yeah, yeah, fabulous. Tim, thank you so much for your time. And um it was amazing.

Tim 33:32

Thank you.

Geoff 33:32

I've learned some stuff and um good luck with the album. I hope that

Tim 33:36

thank you. Yes, thank you.

Geoff 33:37

Make sure you get to play with John Patitucci because I want to hear that.

Tim 33:40

Uh I will I'll try, yeah, yeah. Thank you, Geoff.

Geoff 33:42

I'll see you. Yeah, good enjoy the rest of your day.

Tim 33:45

Yeah, thanks.

Final Thanks and Subscribe

Announcement 33:49

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