Meeting Ray Gelato in London

Geoff 0:04

Geoff Gascoyne here. Hope you're well? It's a rainy October morning. I'm in West London, in Ealing. We're going to see a legend of the British jazz scene. Mr. Ray Gelato, who I've been a fan of for many, many years. Yes. Huge fan. Had a big resurgence of late. So here we go with Ray Gelato.

Announcement 0:48

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The Voice Invitation and Nerves

Geoff 0:59

Ray!

Ray 1:00

You know, I wanted to pick you up, but the kids have taken the class. Right. So I didn't want you to be soaked and wet.

Geoff 1:05

It's fine, I've got a mac. That's right. It's been a while, lovely to see you.

Ray 1:08

You look younger than ever. You never changed.

Geoff 1:10

Oh mate.

Ray 1:11

Would you like a cappuccino? A nice coffee machine.

Geoff 1:14

Yes, I would love one, thank you. Thanks for having me around.

Ray 1:17

More than welcome.

Geoff 1:18

My god, you're on The Voice.

Ray 1:20

I know.

Geoff 1:21

Tell me about that.

Ray 1:22

Well, if you wouldn't know what happened, it was weird because I looked at Instagram one day, checked my messages, and it says, We've been checking out what you do, and we really love it. And um, would you consider coming on The Voice? So I ignored it because I thought there's no way they'd ask someone of my age and what I do on the voice, and it's a scam. So I ignored it. Then they got asked me again, but anyway, they found some means to get hold of me, and I spoke to them, and I said, Well, I don't really want to do it. I'm not I don't believe in the competition thing. And it's and I thought spoke to a few people in the game, you know. Most people just said you should do it because how many times opportunities come on now? What was the clinching factor? Was they asked me to play my own song, 'A Pizza You', which I wrote years ago. I basically thought, bloody hell, well, I'll make the royalties on that and get the song out there. Sure. So that was the factor. It ended up having two auditions. You've got to go to ITV and you're standing on a bit of yellow ticker tape in front of this little panel. And they says, Right, uh, hello, Ray, but I made sure I dressed up. So they were, they were, you know, business like. I says, right, sing a bit of the song. So you just got to sing a bit of it. But uh after like 20 seconds, thank you. He says, Don't forget me. They says, Well, we won't forget you because you're a great character. Then I knew, right? That's why they wanted something a little bit different on it. Then I go for another one where you've got to sit with a vocal coach, and the vocal coach is like, very nice, and ends up sort of like, you know, just what do you want to do? And then we sang through a few different things, and uh, I then I did the another audition with backing tapes. So I did some tapes on um that Moises app, sorry, just a backing, took the vocal off. Yeah, and we did a few other things, and then they they basically I got called me a couple of weeks later and says, Yeah, you're uh your through to the blind audition. And I says, What's the song? They says, Well, they they'd like you to do Pizza U. So we had loads of rehearsals, loads of rehearsals at Newcross. I've got to say, man, that that everybody on that show treated me really, really well. I don't have anything really negative to say, but they were so nice and so accommodating and kind and whatever. And it was good, you know. And uh at the first rehearsal with a band was in Newcross. I go in and they did a great arrangement. I think it's Dave Tench, he tracked all the horns like a big band. Yeah, and it was a massively uh edited arrangement of it, you know, just literally one chorus of vocal, ten or solo.

Geoff 3:26

Two minutes or something, was it?

Ray 3:28

Less about 1.30, minute. And it was good, I was quite happy. They said, Are you happy with it? I was out there in 15 minutes, and and they that they I heard one of the bands say so a bit of a musician in here because the last person was in for an hour and a half. You know, the young artists, they don't know. And then I got to know the producer a little bit more, and they were very nice, you know. He says, Well, can you do it again for us? Because we we really enjoy it, and they were smiling. Yeah, then I had to go to Salford for a rehearsal, dress rehearsal, and then did the blind audition. It's the frightening thing I've done in my life.

Geoff 3:56

I imagine, yeah.

Ray 3:57

Terrible. Yeah, I mean, I'm used to doing everything under my terms and our terms. Yeah, you're used to playing for people who want to come and see you. But the the scariest thing is you're you're in this uh green room all day. My family came up as well, so you do that. Yeah, they put you up in a hotel, you're in a green room all day, and you're not allowed to see. So I always assumed that the contestants could see what was going on. The other contestants, the judges, had no idea. Yeah, the only time I saw the judge panel was they said who was on it. So Kelly Rowland, um who I was vaguely familiar with, Tom Jones, of course, will .i.am, of course, and the two guys from McFly. I wasn't really aware what McFly did. So I'm waiting all day, all suited up. I think I was gonna go on at three, and they came up and said, No, no, sorry, we've got to change the audience around, the judges are tired, everyone's tired. So sorry, but but but they they got me a dressing room. My son couldn't believe it. He says they treated you like they treat me very well. They bought food in, so my family could come in, so we chilled in a dressing room, then I go in a green room for another couple of hours, and the more it's going on, the more you get nervous because you're thinking I approached it really light-heartedly. I thought, well, point one, I'm gonna grab it with both hands and do my best. And the also the opportunity, Geoff, of an artist like me or any of us now doing UK TV, it's impossible. You've only got Jools Holland. I like Jools, but they don't have me on. So I thought, well, how much different is it than the old Ed Sullivan shows or something like that where people would clap and you go. It's not it's it's it's so I thought I'll I'll give it a shot. A couple of people at Ronnie Scott's says, Well, one of this, I'm not gonna mention the name, but band went on and and nobody turned it. He was absolutely devastated. And I thought, uh, I don't care. If no one turns, I'll make a joke. When you're standing there two minutes before you go on and you're actually thinking, no one's gonna **ing turn around. I'm gonna be literally looking like a real f** you. Yeah. So I get out there and the band starts, and you're actually thinking, because it's an edit, I usually do an eight-bar intro in my band. Now, this is for I don't then your mind's playing. What's gonna, you know, I'm gonna and if you mess up, you you there's no second chance. But anyway, they do the intro, I go out and do do it, and literally Kelly Rowland turns around straight away, the red button. Then I get the adrenaline, bang! Wow, and then the audience start going nuts, right? So I, I just give it one, you know, and then during the tenor solo, the McFly guys turn around and get up and start dancing. So Kelly's dancing, the McFly guys are dancing. You don't see Tom or will.i. am. Long and the short of it is at the end they turn around. They, you know, everyone turns around. But I gotta say, a lot of was edited out, but everybody was so nice, there was no putting me down. But I made a big mistake because I because I wasn't privy to anything going on, I thought that they had said to me, You go down, you shake the judge's hand. You weren't meant to do that. I go and shake the judge's hands, and my son and family are back there, and the producer saying, Oh, what's he doing? He's not meant to, and then one of them says, Leave it, it's great TV. So and they're they're they're quite shocked, the panel that I actually but we all had a laugh. Tom Jones, despite the fact he didn't turn, and there's there's reasons for that, because I I I um I did understudy for him in uh in uh with for a gig with Leo Green for Leiber and Stoller. They asked me to tell that story, yeah. So obviously they must have run that story by him. So there's a lot of reasons, so they're obviously thinking he can't turn because it's like he it's an episode.

Geoff 7:00

It's all planned, and it it's all

Ray 7:01

I don't think the turns are actually planned because I know that Kelly was that was definitely she was really into it, and the McFly guys. But I was just happy now that the thing says hundreds of comments, there's one thing, The Voice global, and 99.9% so nice. Who's this guy? What's wrong with Tom Jones? All slagging off Tom, you know. But there's a but he was so nice. What first thing he said when I turned, which is edited, he goes, Louis Prima. I used to see him in Vegas and Sam Butera, you like Sam Butera? I said, Yeah, you know, I'm there and he's talking about the saxophone, yeah, and he said I used to sit there and watch these guys, they're amazing, because you were so great, right? You reminded me of them. And then he said, Uh uh uh is that your song? Is that Louis Prima's song? I said, No, it was mine. That's when they cut the editor wll.i.am saying, Yeah, man, that's a classic, so it was so nice.

Geoff 7:44

Fantastic.

Ray 7:44

Nobody was negative. Uh, this was filmed June 2025.

Geoff 7:50

Last year?

Ray 7:51

Yeah, last year. And it was meant to come out September. So I get through to this battles round, which I hate the battles idea, and that's done in Ally Pally.

Geoff 7:59

Yeah.

Ray 7:59

And uh I'm singing um 'For Once in my Life'. But let me just put it this way: somebody like me was never gonna win it. Yeah, I never went in it to win it. I was happy to pass the blind audition because uh I proved a lot of naysayers wrong because people could say no one turns around. Well, I also, what was lovely was they they called me uh on the Monday after the show was shown, and one of the people I was dealing with just said, How do you think it went? We've got great feedback. And she goes, We want you to know we used your mum on the very first episode because it was dynamic. That's why I realised then, probably why they got me on the show. Not to win it, pretty sure I was the oldest artist by far. And also, I also had a lot more admiration. Those young kids who go on there who haven't got experience like I've got, they've got balls of steel.

Geoff 8:41

Absolutely,

Ray 8:42

and they're talented too.

Geoff 8:43

Well, just to stand up in a room in front of a panel and sing with nothing. I mean, that's a

Ray 8:47

I got a new admiration for those people, and we were on a nice team, Kelly Rowland's team. She's lovely, she's charming, but you don't get to see much of it. And you don't get coached by Kelly. I knew two of the vocal coaches who I'm not saying they can't teach me anything because I'm always up for learning. But what they did is the first one, like they're explaining and guiding you how to put the song across for the panel. So they said at the end, because I like to sing rhythmically in clip notes, and she said, just try to hold that what or what it is. I just want a little longer because you're giving it a bigger thing.

Geoff 9:17

Yeah, yeah.

Ray 9:17

That's it. Yeah, that's it. That was fine. Then they want you to do it over and over again, and I just said, no, no, no, no, no.

Learning Jazz by Ear

Geoff 9:23

Right. Can we get back to how you got started in jazz? I remember going to see you in the 80s with the Giants of Jive at the Wag Club.

Ray 9:29

And the Chevalier Brothers.

Geoff 9:31

And the Chevalier Brothers, that's right. Yeah, yeah. How did you get a start in jazz? What was your inspiration?

Ray 9:36

Well, I was originally a rock and roll player because my dad was into all that, he was uh uh from New Jersey and he had the big collection, came over, he was a 50s kid, so he came over with all those records Fats Domino, Bill Haley. Yeah, and uh how I started to play was I had no technique, no knowledge of music, but I just used to somehow busk along to the records. And I've always had well, probably a reasonably ear, so I could pick up stuff. I love the saxophone so much, those guys with Fats Domino, Lee Allen, and the guy with Bill Haley and the Comets Rudy Pompilli. I later realized, you know, at the time, they were jazz players doing sessions. That's what they were. They were doing studio work for these, you know, but and they were on people like Lee Allen and the Fats Domino guy, he was on all those rhythm and blues records. And I got into jazz that way, really. But then I got to meet this uh guy on the street called Maurice Chevalier that was we called himself Maurice Chevalier.

Geoff 10:22

He was a guitar player in the Chevalier Brothers, yeah.

Ray 10:24

And he used to play all that four rhythm, yeah, and you know, and uh he was I'd say he was pretty much a genius, but he didn't really have a massive musical knowledge of what he was doing. So I'd like asked him at the time, I'd say, Why are you playing there? You know, because I got met him on the street, got my sacks up, started playing. He says, Come back next week. I did have a technique because I I started to study with a guy called Pat Crumley. Do you remember Pat?

Geoff 10:45

I remember Pat, yes.

Ray 10:46

Do you remember Pat? Yeah, there used to be the NME, and in the back was sax tuition. So I thought, you know, I says, I want to learn how to do this and the scales and the whatever. And Pat basically took me for all that. We got the Jimmy Dorsey tutor book, and he said, right, it's major scale, all 12 keys, and I'd come back the next week and learn them. I was really dedicated to doing it, and in that time I started to go to the record and tape exchange, and that was just before I met Maurice, the guitar player. This was going a couple of years before that, and um, I'd got a tape exchange and buy Stan Getz. I didn't know about jazz, so I wanted to learn about the saxophone, and Pat would recommend. And I used to buy anything, random stuff, Albert Island, anything, you know, and I didn't know, and I realised what I like and what I didn't enjoy. Yeah, I remember buying the Coltrane thing with Giant Steps on, and I was a kid, and I didn't understand what it was at all. And uh, one that really got me was uh "Lockjaw " Davis and Johnny Griffin. That was uh that was uh uh where they played Tickle Toe, and I obviously I didn't know anything about chords. So Pat sort of took me through that. I think he recommended Eddie Harvey's night school. So I went to that. Remember Eddie Harvey, used to play with Humph, yeah. Trombone player but played piano. Yeah, so I went to the Eddie Harvey harmony class, and I was living in council flat with mum and dad in uh in Latimer Road, and I'd get the saxophone out, put a tea towel down it. Yeah, it was one in the morning in the council flat. Can you imagine playing as quite as I can, learning from a reel-to-reel tape? Yeah, trying to learn the solos. I started really by doing transcription, even though I didn't realise what it was called. Yeah, and looking back, some of them were fairly complex. You know, like Rudy's Rock with Bill Haley and the Comets, that guy was playing augmented uh up and down arpeggios, yeah, you know, and and and I didn't know what it was. So I got that solidified a bit by Eddie. Yeah, but what I realized with Eddie's class was he was he was great, but um how can I put this in a kind way? Well, we can't, because it was so many years ago. 90% of people that go to those course are no -hopers, they're just no -hopers. Yeah, they they they got no concept of music, yeah. And I guess I must have had some sort of natural ability, I don't know where it came from, my family. Because and Pat used to say, you know those scales now, uh in in I don't know, four or five keys. I said, Yeah, which was were basics, but they're so great, and it just gave me a ground, they're melodic minor, harmonic minor, all that stuff, diminished all he he showed me all that basic stuff, and he said, Once you know that, everything else is icing because there's not much more and and we concentrated on sound because I was a rock and roll player, I developed that big sound early on because I blew the ** out the instrument and used the right, you know. Yeah, and he said, You've got a great sound, natural sound. He goes, We can improve that, and he he he showed me the long notes, you know. Yeah, that was it. But so between that and Eddie's harmony class and Kathy Stobart's big band, remember Kath? Yeah, she was lovely. So I remember once we did a section and I bent a note and she stopped it. She went, There's no room for trickery in here. And because a lot a lot of the people didn't like me because I was a bit macho. I had the big, you know, the quiff, muscles and the tattoo and playing a bit macho. Some of them really didn't like me. And and because they were terrible players, you know, and and they were all like sniggering, you know. But then Kath was fine, she was really cool, and I I and now I kind of got a bit of reading together in that, but yeah, I I've always been, I've got to say, Geoff, I've always been a shocking reader, and I realise now that I think I've got a slight dyslexia with music reading, because I did Pete Long's Ellington about the years, and sometimes it just looks a jumble to me. I can't, I can't. What's the word?

Geoff 14:07

It's very common, I think, in in with creative people.

Ray 14:10

With Pete's band, I'd I because it was the Ellington stuff which was so complicated, the Echoes of Ellington. I did that in the 90s and early 2000s, and I used to take this. Pete says, Well, don't worry, he said to me, I said, I can't do it. I can't do this band. He offered me the job. I said, I can't do it because I don't read well enough. He goes, Neither neither did half the Ellington band. So I just went home with the records. It's true, yeah. I went home with the scores, the charts, and the records and learnt that way. But I've

Geoff 14:33

In some ways it's bit it's better because you you you take it in deeper, don't you?

Ray 14:36

Yeah, you take it in deeper, and I've always been more I it's it's once it's been better for me because I've it I've had to use my ears all the time.

Geoff 14:42

Yeah.

Ray 14:42

And I think that's been a good thing. And also with the knowledge that I got from Eddie of just basic harmony.

Geoff 14:49

So, what about the singing?

How Singing Joined the Act

Geoff 14:50

Ray 14:50

Where did that start? Total by accident. We were playing at Camden Town and Covent Garden, busking on the streets. So we were just doing instrumentals, and we were earning in those days £40 a shift. 80 quid on a Saturday and 80 quid on a Sunday.

Geoff 15:02

It's very much what jazz gigs play nowadays, isn't it?

Ray 15:04

I mean that was a fortune. And it was that what that did was it got me really playing.

Geoff 15:08

Yeah.

Ray 15:08

You know, and I was sort of trying to work out how to use some of the knowledge that I'd learnt, which takes years to understand. The singing, Maurice called me up, or his name, real name was Patrice. He called me up, he says, Oh, we've got a gig at the Camden Palace, and it's a talent competition on the boss. He says, We're doing it. So I think it was me, him, and a bass player. Right. It was a guy called Lloyd Gordon on tea chest bass. And people used to like that, you know. We made no notes, but it was just

Geoff 15:34

like a bass drum, really more at least. Exactly.

Ray 15:37

But when you listen to some of those bass players from the 30s, you're not really hearing notes, you're just doing doom doom doom. You're hearing the rhythm. So we did this thing, and he when we got there, he goes, Oh, they've asked for a vocal. That's just great, who's gonna do it? He goes, You. I said, there's no way. Because when I've heard you in the car singing, he goes, I think I did Jump, Jive and Wail, that Louis Prima thing. Then we won the talent contest, then we won a residency in the Embassy Club once a week for I don't know, a couple of months. And then uh we realised, you know, I loved all that Louis Jordan stuff. I wasn't really into the crooners at that time. I loved all the rhythm and blue stuff like Big Joe Turner, Wynonie Harris, the rock and roll, Louis Jordan. And we started putting a few more songs in, and that's how the singing sort of happened, you know. You know, when I listened back, actually, it's not bad, it's in tune, it's more speak singing, but I still do that now. And to be honest with you, for a good while I really never enjoyed singing. I just looked at it as a means to an end. But people started to like it, and we started to add a few more things like Caldonia in there, and that that was it, you know.

Geoff 16:33

But you dressed up in the suits as well, didn't you? Yeah. That was all part of the thing, wasn't it?

Ray 16:37

It was all part of it, yeah, yeah. Stupid sort of zoot suits. Well, they weren't really, you know, that 40 sort of look. Because I used to look at pictures, see, I started to get obsessed with jazz, and I started to look at pictures. I had that this jazz book by uh, I think it was William Gottlieb, and it was beautiful, smoky pictures from all the mid-40s and early 40s clubs, and you'd have Fats Waller dressed up, and you'd have Parker in the pinstripe suit and Coleman Hawkins, and I used to love just looking like that, you know, dressing like that. From the rock and roll and rhythm and blues, I got into the Texas kind of tenor players, you know, Illinois Jacquet, Arnett Cobb. And I was fortunate to see him because luckily during the 80s, when I started, a lot of those guys were still playing. "Lockjaw" Davis, Harold Land, they were still there at Ronnie's, you know. When I saw those guys play, especially like people like Illinois Jacquet, I was a different player when I got home. Yeah, my sound changed because I somehow understood it.

Geoff 17:28

The nuance you get when you see somebody live, yeah.

Ray 17:30

Totally different. Yeah, totally different. And that sound, it was so wonderful of those that all those guys made from that era. It almost you could feel it, but I can't describe it. I don't hear that now with somebody, but what I call that very vocal tone, you know.

Geoff 17:44

Big tone as well.

Ray 17:46

Big big, but not brash or anything like that, like lovely, you know. And all with the right vibrato and the right kind of very lucky to see those people, a lot of them play.

Geoff 18:01

So speaking of saxophone, your saxophone's sitting over there. I asked you to pick a tune to to have a little blow on. Sure. Yeah, what did what did you pick?

Ray 18:08

Well, should we have a little blow on Pennies from

'Pennies From Heaven' Sax Chorus

Ray 18:10

Heaven?

Geoff 18:10

It's right, okay. So we're gonna play two choruses. Oh my two choruses, yeah. In C. Okay. Little quotes in there. I don't know. Down, right? Blimey, right? It's massive.

Ray 20:19

Thanks, man.

Geoff 20:20

Filling the room

Ray 20:20

I weren't playing quietly. When you're playing quietly, that's exactly wow. Fantastic. Wow, it's a different sound, isn't it? Now that what it's just a different,

Geoff 20:29

it's a great sound. You can hear, I mean, you hear all the history of you know what you listen to and thank you. Uh yeah, amazing, yeah. How is it to play with? Does it feel comfortable?

Ray 20:37

Perfect. Yeah, yeah. I really what I look forward to doing is putting that on with headphones and taking it through that song key. Yeah. Well, you know what I find though, uh they say all the keys, but I've got to work for a key, uh, a new key for a good couple of weeks to get fluid in it. Yeah, that's the way to do it. Perhaps every week just do another.

Geoff 20:55

It's it's amazing how how different a semitone, uh what a difference a semitone can make, you know.

Ray 21:00

It does, but some keys, the actual sound on the tune isn't right. Yeah, I can't describe it, you know. It's not what especially some of the uh the sharper keys, you know.

Geoff 21:08

So do you sing that one, do you?

Ray 21:09

Yeah,

Geoff 21:10

in C?

Ray 21:10

No, uh I can do it, I do it in C, but if I want to do that more that distortion, I put it in E flat. Right. More that yellow the Prima kind of idea on it, yeah. Yeah. My band I do it in E flat sometimes.

Geoff 21:21

Yeah, amazing. So I've got some questions that I

Favourites, Highlights and Weaknesses

Geoff 21:26

ask everyone. Sure. First question: what's your favourite album?

Ray 21:29

My favourite, oh, it it's quite an easy one. But I've got a lot of favourite albums, but we're talking jazz. Illinois Jacquet live at Ronnie Scott's in the 70s. Cool. And with Milk Buckner on the organ and Tony Crombie on the drums. And I'll tell you why. One, he plays so well that you can feel the spirit of those times. You can hear the glasses clinking, you've got a bit of banter, he does a bit of banter with the audience. Yeah, but the standard of musicianship is just so fantastic on it, you know, and it's uh it's only obvious tunes The King, Take the A -Train, C Jam Blues, and he does. It's a beautiful version of Easy Living. And that was probably the biggest influence on me, that album. Right, right, right. And I love it because it's live. It's called Genius at Work.

Geoff 22:08

I'll check that out. Fantastic. Yeah. Question number two Is there a musician alive or dead that you'd like to play with?

Ray 22:14

Well, there's a few. I mean, I'd love to play with Scott Hamilton. I love Scott. I have sat in with Scott before. Him and Lew Tabackin, the tenor player, was one of my favourites, but I think I'd be a little scared to play with them. But they're two of them I would really like.

Geoff 22:27

So specifically playing with another tenor player, what I mean, you why would you pick another of the same instrument? Um seems an obvious question.

Ray 22:33

Because I'd get a lot of I'd get a lot of inspiration from that, you know. Yeah, I think one of those guys in the in the the jazz world, singers, I don't know. I don't really want to play with singers.

Geoff 22:44

You have played with singers, yeah.

Ray 22:46

I do, but uh but actually backing singers, I'm not, I'm not, I wouldn't say I'm the best at that.

Geoff 22:50

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've had your Giants. How long have you had the Giants of Jive for now?

Ray 22:54

It was originally the Giants of Jive from about 1988, and then in the mid-90s, we changed it just to the Giants because we wanted to drop that Jive just it it put us more in that swing dance category. It's probably years. I mean 1988 I've been running that band. A seven-piece band on the road, you know.

Geoff 23:11

Wow, that's incredible, isn't it?

Ray 23:13

Yeah, it's crazy.

Geoff 23:14

Is that the main part of your of what you do? You're running your own band?

Ray 23:17

I would say pretty much. But nowadays I I um I'm a lot more flexible. I do some guest spots, but it's got to be the right quality because you get a lot of bands who say, Oh, we like your band, especially in Italy, you want me to do guests and I don't want to do it. It's just a lot of hassle, a lot of rehearsal. And I'm thinking, well, why why play with something not as good as my own thing? Doesn't make you look good. Having said that, I do do it financially. Sometimes you have to, but I also do a combo, which I really enjoy doing. Uh uh, if it's a smaller venue, something like Peggy Skylight or the Band Club, I'll put a four-piece in. Basically our rhythm section. Uh, but usually a different bass player, because our bass player, Manuel, goes from Spain. I'll use a guy here called Elizla Luiz, who's a nice bass player, guy from Argentina. I'll do that, but also I do uh uh a two-tenor thing with a guy called Enric Pedro in Spain, which is lovely, and also with Simon Spillet here sometimes. Right. And I really enjoy that because that's not I don't want to sing with that at all. Might do one to keep him happy. You always get some clown asking for Buenos Aires Señoritas. But I'd say pretty good variety of what I want to do.

Geoff 24:19

Yeah.

Ray 24:19

And that's lovely, yeah. I love the jazz stuff. I really love playing the jazz stuff now.

Geoff 24:24

So, question number three uh what would you say was the highlight of your career?

Ray 24:28

That's a tough one, you know, because I've had so many. I should say The Voice. It was fun and it was a great challenge, but I think the highlight was probably uh one of the shows at Umbria Jazz that we've done, probably back in the early 2000s when it was, you know, there was a lot of the greats playing there. And a couple of those gigs, they still do, but they really did catch on fire, and I got a credible feeling from it. Probably the Umbria Jazz Festival's been the highlight of my career.

Geoff 24:51

Well, that's a fantastic festival,

Ray 24:53

I would say that

Geoff 24:54

gorgeous in Italy

Ray 24:54

I wouldn't say the commercial stuff we've done. We've worked for the Queen twice, yeah, and Robbie Williams and all that, that all the people like to mention at McCartney's wedding. No, they were they were fun, but the the public things, uh Umbria definitely, you know.

Geoff 25:07

You work in Italy a lot, don't you?

Ray 25:08

Pretty much. Luckily, they've taken the band to their hearts in a way. Yeah, so I still get booked over there.

Geoff 25:13

Yeah.

Ray 25:13

Yeah, which is really, really lovely. We've just done Umbria. We did it this year. I've done it 12 times, probably the record, you know. Keep asking me back.

Geoff 25:20

Yeah. I played at the Milan Blue Note a couple of weeks ago. I played there with you.

Ray 25:24

You played there with us, Geoff. We did a lovely week there, didn't we? We didn't only do that, but when you were doing that, we had that wonderful old agent called Izio, and he booked some gigs before and some gigs after. It was a long tour. Yeah, well on the road for about two weeks.

Geoff 25:36

What a lovely man he was.

Ray 25:37

He was, but we had a great time then. Yeah, you fitted in the band. We all of us had a great time. Seb was there. Yeah. See, that doesn't happen now like that. Yeah. There's not that we all know it's it's shrunk quite a lot, so it's very difficult to put a string of dates together like that, you know.

Geoff 25:52

What would you say it was your musical weakness?

Ray 25:54

Reading is definitely my musical weakness. Reading, and I would say now, perhaps technique, because I had a better technique 20 years ago than I have now, because I don't necessarily enjoy practicing technical things anymore. I'll practice tunes. So perhaps my technique, perhaps I can use it now, yeah, but if I've got a difficult passage to execute, I find it more difficult now.

Geoff 26:16

Yeah.

Ray 26:17

Because I'm not technically as proficient as as I was. I mean, with the skill, so probably that that side of it, you know.

Geoff 26:22

But I mean, all the music that comes out of you when you're soloing is I suppose it's familiar stuff, isn't it? Because you've got to think it in your head first before you play it, don't you? Yeah, yeah. You know, and if you're not, you know, you're used to playing in that style, you're that Illinois Jacquet, that that cool style, you know. You don't want to be Michael Brecker.

Ray 26:38

No, absolutely right. A lot of the time I will avoid doing ultra-technical path or what I'm talking about, what they call now a lot of these I can't, they did people use a different language now that we never used to use enclosures, I never use set melodic cells. Nobody spoke like that when I it was scales, arpeggios, yeah, that was it. So I don't understand what those things are about, but then I listen to people online that are unbelievable, but I wouldn't want to do that because it would take me away. Plus, you know, if you've got a big sound, you mentioned about that. I've always tried to make that very, very big. You can't play particularly fast. I can play fast tempo. That's not a problem for me. I do that with Simon, but I can't play fast like those kind of people.

Geoff 27:15

Yeah, yeah.

Ray 27:16

That's what I can't do. And I don't think it's I I I'm working always to play melodically. Working like working to improve my ear. That could improve all our ears could improve. That could improve. Your ears go to sleep if you don't use them. You know, when I transcribe now, it takes me a it takes me a few days to lock in again. But that's what it's about. Yeah, using the ear, you know.

Geoff 27:35

Do you ever get nervous on stage?

Ray 27:37

I do sometimes. It depends on the gig. Like we did The 100 Club the other day, and I wouldn't be nervous there because it's such a crazy atmosphere. I get nervous at Ronnie's sometimes. I get nervous when people are actually watching. But I nothing I can't conquer. Nerves can kill you, man. Sure. Nerves can paralyse you, they can paralyse your voice. As I told you earlier, I think the most nervous I've been, probably ever, was doing that Voice.

Geoff 27:58

The TV thing.

Ray 27:59

That was awful. That was paralysing, and and because you are worried, and the more you worry about going wrong, the more likely that is to happen. You know, and there's a way of trying to just block all that out somehow, and I haven't always found it that that you've just got to go on and do it, you know. But no, I don't, I I I have mild nerves, but nothing, nothing. I've done it so long, I know what I can do, you know.

Geoff 28:20

Yeah, yeah. Have you ever been starstruck? You ever met any of your heroes?

Ray 28:23

And I've met Tony Bennett a couple of times. I met him once in Umbria, once in uh I turned up at this gig at the Botanical Gardens in Brooklyn. It was an American band that I've worked with for years that we do still do bits and pieces. They're guys around my age, all ex-Atlantic City musicians. And the guy booked me for a little trip, and he one of them was the a wedding at the Botanical Gardens. So I took the subway down there in my tux, you know. Walked there, found it, or whatever. And the band leader said to me, He says, You know who the guest of honour is? He goes, I says, Who? He goes, Tony Bennett. And I said, Oh, thanks for telling me. And he's and he says, and you know where he's sitting? I says, No, he goes, right in the front of the row. So I had to play the whole set in front of him with his wife or his girlfriend, Susan. And uh he could not have been more complimentary afterwards, so I met him afterwards, and he was talking about the old days of Vegas a little bit. And he said, That reminds me of one of those lounge acts. And he was very, very nice, very kind. But yeah, yeah, so I was a bit starstruck with him. For when we when we did Nice in the early 90s with the Giants of Jive, I hustled the Nice Jazz Festival. That's where I saw all the people like Stan Gates, Illinois, Lionel Hampton, Basie. We were basically playing some sort of conference in Belgium, and Simone Genubbre, who's the boss, was sitting with Toots Thielman in the front row again. And she says, Would you like to play the Nice Festival? She was like George Wein's right-hand woman, you know. Yeah. So we did, we hustled and hustled. We did it for two years running, and one day there was uh Lionel Hampton at the side of the stage, James Moody, the same thing, Ruby Breath, and they all were so nice. Young people play the music. Jerry Weldon told me something, you know, the tenor thing. Yeah, well, did a thick little thing with him in New York, and he's he's a lovely player, he was a friend of this American guy that I know, and he came and sat in, and we had a lovely time together. We had a few whiskeys, and he said, I he says, you know, we're talking about this. He goes, When I used to start playing, Roy Eldridge would be in the audience, uh, every every George Coleman would come in, and he goes, But I realised something, none of them gave a sh**. They'd want to go to the bar and have a drink, they didn't care, they didn't give a sh** what you're doing, and that's it.

Geoff 30:21

Yeah, but you know that they've got an ear on you, though, don't you?

Ray 30:24

Yeah, I was a little nervous singing in front of Tom Jones, to be honest with you, because he's a he's a

Geoff 30:28

you can't get any better than Tom.

Ray 30:30

No, you can't, you really can't, and what he's done, that guy, man, all the TV.

Geoff 30:35

Insane.

Ray 30:35

So, yeah, that's what I would be sort of nervous now, you know.

Geoff 30:38

I have to tell you, speaking of Toots Tillman's actually, another story, we were um we played in Belgium with Jamie, and um Toots Thielmans sat in with with with uh Jamie Cullum's band, right? He played two tunes, and I I'll never forget it. I was weeping, it was so emotional. Yeah, yeah. I was he was playing harmonica with You Don't Know What Love Is, and I was there's a photo of me, and I'm just yeah weeping with emotion.

Ray 31:04

I've I've I've had that scene, people you know, that moved me. The other guy was a massive hero of mine was Sam Butera. He was basically the guy that that that reinvented the whole Prima sound in the 50s, yeah, and uh kept the band going all his life. We did something with him, I met him in Vegas, but we worked with him opposite in Italy, and I get an email from the drummer who's working with Van Morrison now, Bobby Ruggera, and he said, Look, right, please, please don't take this the wrong way. But uh, Sam hates a lot of these modern jump jive bands doing the Prima stuff. He goes, So would you mind sending me your repertoire so we don't tread on each other's toes or Sam will have a fit? I was like, This is my hero, he's gonna hate me, right? So I wrote back and says, Bob, it's not a problem. I said, We don't only do pre-we got a whole library of stuff, don't worry about it. So I sent him the list and he said, Thank you so much. And it was all cool. Butera was cool, he got me to sit in with him. They said that uh in 40 years, Sam doesn't ask people up. And I did uh Bill Bailey, Won't you Please Come Home

Geoff 31:58

Oh, what a thrill!

Ray 31:59

Yeah, and he was a consummate musician. I'm sorry, you know, when you hear these people really play, what they can do. He was a consummate sax player, played with Sammy Davis, played with Sinatra, you know, yeah. So I'm nervous in front of him, I can tell you now. But he liked it. He he he he knew what I was doing, and I wasn't trying to copy his style.

Geoff 32:18

Yeah, wow, what a thrill. Amazing.

Touring Social Media and New Album

Geoff 32:20

I know. Right, I've got a couple of other questions, starting with what's your favourite sandwich?

Ray 32:24

Oh, hang on a minute. Oh, smoked salmon cream cheese with capers. It's very easy. Oh, yeah. Black pepper and lemon, my favourite sandwich on some sourdough bread.

Geoff 32:33

Yeah. That's a good one. Um, what's your favourite movie?

Ray 32:37

Goodfellas. Or The Godfather, Goodfellas, I would say. Yeah, what is the movie, right?

Geoff 32:45

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've seen that uh documentary on the Scorsese documentary.

Ray 32:49

I have. Have you seen it? It was on um one of those uh Apple Plus, or yes, I did.

Geoff 32:54

Isn't that great?

Ray 32:54

Fantastic. He was so fantastic, that guy. He kind of took the street thing, didn't he, and put it into the movies. Yeah. But I I don't just like Goodfellas because it's a gangster movie, I like it because it's it's it shows the horror of those people. How they all kind of they're all smart, then they all just turn on each other.

Geoff 33:10

Well what was interesting about the Scorsese documentary was how real the characters were. Yeah. And he talks to the guys, doesn't he? Those guys that the stories are based off.

Ray 33:19

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, it's fantastic.

Geoff 33:21

Scorsese, what a legend. Right. What's your favourite venue?

Ray 33:24

You know, I'd I'd I'd have to say Ronnie's now. I love Ronnie's. I mean The 100 Club as well, but I'd have to say Ronnie's really because it's just such a it's nowhere like it, nowhere like it to play. The atmosphere is is incredible. You know,

Geoff 33:37

do Christmas things?

Ray 33:37

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Five days now, usually. Five days, usually the week leading up to Christmas, they'll get it. But you don't know, things don't last forever. Everyone has their own plans in time, but you can't expect everything. But I'm amazed I've been there for so many years.

Geoff 33:50

It's amazing. And travel, right? You travel obviously a lot. You got a favourite city that you like to go to?

Ray 33:56

Well, probably New York is one of my favourites, but I don't get to play there much. I do play the States. I would probably have to say Madrid. Absolutely love Madrid. I love it. I prefer it to Barcelona. I love every corner you can go in one of those little ham places and have the little plate of ham and cheese and a nice beer and uh proper cold beer, you know. The proper yeah, so I'd say Madrid, probably. I love Madrid.

Geoff 34:18

But you play a lot in Italy as well, don't you?

Ray 34:20

Yeah, I do. I mean there's great places there. I mean, I love Perugia. Probably I take it for granted because we've been there, so yeah, that's one of my favourite places as well. Yeah, I like Milan as well, even though you know everybody said it's this and this, I've got so used to it and I know the nice places to go. So I I kind of try to have a good time everywhere I go, you know, trying to find something different in it. But I I do love Madrid a lot.

Geoff 34:42

And uh when you travel, window or aisle?

Ray 34:44

Aisle. Even if I've got to pay now, they charge you for everything. I hate travelling, Geoff.

Geoff 34:49

I do as well.

Ray 34:50

I despise it. I'll never retire, right? Because I love to play and I love to perform for people. But there could come a time where I'm completely limiting all that now. And try to just work a little bit in the UK or a little bit around London to be very quieter because I love going there, I love being there. The means of getting there now, it's horrible. Yeah, it's really horrible. And everybody says it, and the the the airlines just treat people they they should to me, they if they were held to account, we'd have something a little bit different. There again, too many people are travelling, there's too many of us travelling. So that's something I'd never miss about this business.

Geoff 35:23

Yeah, I'm I'm with you totally.

Ray 35:24

It's horrible, Geoff. You do a lot as well now.

Geoff 35:26

I do, yeah. I've cut it right down to be honest, but uh I'm I still get out, you know.

Ray 35:30

I do. You've got to ask, you see, that's the thing, you've got to ask for the price now. You know, for me, I have to ask for a decent price to go out there and do it. Um, but the problem is if I don't do it, I can't keep the band working because there's not enough in the UK, and uh I think the guys still like it, and the best way to deal with it is just try to have a laugh. But it's become harder, isn't it? It's become harder.

Geoff 35:52

Um cats or dogs?

Ray 35:53

Cats. We've got three here. Have you? Yeah, I like both animals, but we've got three cats, yeah. Yeah, we've got a big fat tortoise shell that's about 11. She's beautiful, very loving cat. We've got a fluffy kind of per no, she's not Persian, but a little small one that's that's quite anxious and nervous, yeah, but nice. And we then we've got a male that's been, the guy's indestructible, he's run over. He's literally like literally run over by a car, and all his jaw was smashed. He's been attacked by other cats, he's attacked other cats, he's he's been he's the only one we had to get insured, but he's alive and kicking. He's about four. He's a nutcase, yeah. He meets me on the street. I come back the other day from meeting a friend, eleven at night. I come in here, he's outside meowing at me like the mate, you know, showing off, going up against the tree, you know.

Geoff 36:39

Wow, yeah are they affectionate? Did you get cuddles from them?

Ray 36:42

Yeah, yeah, the the tortoise shell definitely. She's really loving, you know, she'll meow at you and want want cuddles. The fluffy one, not to me, uh, but to the kids. She sleeps on the bed, and the other one only when he feels like it. When he wants food, he'll come up and have a little go. Yeah, yeah. And sometimes he'll he'll he'll hiss if you touch him when he doesn't want to be touched, yeah.

Geoff 37:00

Right.

Ray 37:00

Yeah, he's a character, yeah.

Geoff 37:01

Oh, amazing. Okay, a couple more questions. What's the most used app on your phone?

Ray 37:06

Dropbox, yeah. I put all my stuff in Dropbox, press kit and all that kind of thing, and accounts and whatever. So, yeah, yeah. That and my banking app. Yeah, because I'm having to check if people have paid up. Yeah, sure, yeah.

Geoff 37:16

And what about social media? Are you into that?

Ray 37:18

Yeah, I have to be because if you don't use it nowadays, look, you know it. We're expected to be the artist, the MC, the promoter of the gig, because venues don't really promote. Let's face it, they don't. Yeah, they don't, and I think that's really bad. I wouldn't mind if it's a 50-50 effort. And I've told a lot of venues that, and when I tell them that, they'll say, Oh, we will. And what they do, they retweet what I'm putting or repost it.

Geoff 37:41

Sure, yeah.

Ray 37:41

So we know that. So social media is a necessary evil to get people in.

Geoff 37:45

Did you get a lot of followers after The Voice?

Ray 37:48

Yeah, yeah, considerable.

Geoff 37:49

Like a considerable amount.

Ray 37:50

Yeah, yeah, a considerable amount. I mean, they're a lot of them don't engage, you know. But yeah, yeah, I did I did. Facebook's a big problem because it's only allowed 5,000, so I've been well over that limit for ages. And the band page I've got on Facebook, the official band, it doesn't get any no one bothers with that. They all want the personal page, so I've got to go on there and try to unfriend loads of people that I don't engage with. I mean, it's awful, it's just a waste of my time. Instagram's great, TikTok was a disaster for me. I used to try it, but since The Voice it's taken off a little bit more, so it gets a bit more traction on it. I think the thing that I put up about The Voice the day after has gotten over 300,000 views on uh Instagram, which is great. You know, but again, you can't keep cooking it all the time. What I find with something like that is that runs without me. You know, there's like The Voice Australia has got my clip on The Voice glass, so you just let it let it run without you.

Geoff 38:39

And what's the and what what would the impact of of doing The Voice be on your career? Would you say you've got more bookings or put your price up or yeah,

Ray 38:47

yeah, um listen, it's not earth shattering Geoff. You've got to be realistic, and I think things happen in time, yeah. But I have got some things. I've got a couple of festivals approach me that um didn't approach me before. We put an album out because of it, uh uh, which was basically a compilation of um Middle England favourites. Great. Nobody or Somebody Loves You, Everybody Loves Somebody. So that's nice. But that most of the time we sell a load of those on gigs, we do vinyl, and we call it Everybody Loves Ray because that's what one of the producers said. So the quote says, Oh, because I said so, he goes, Well, everyone loves Ray. I thought, well, a lovely title. So and that's that's basically a compilation. We've just recorded a new album that I'm gonna put out next year. Um, and it's so different, it's basically more New Orleans-y bluesy jazz, you know, not really 12 bars, but good. And I wrote, I've I've written pretty much half of it, the songs. Yeah, I wrote one called The Customer Is Never Right, which is like a Ray Charles style blues, right? And we actually wrote our first Western Swing style one called Life's Small Irritations, right? And we played at the 100 Club the other day, and it's uh it's very bass-led, you know. That's interesting. And it went down so well, and I thought it's only us that put barriers in our minds. Why not try something different? So I'm really looking forward to the new first studio album for years. So I'm really looking forward to doing that.

Geoff 39:59

Fantastic, yeah. That just reminds me actually, you sang one of my library. I did things, didn't you? That track I wrote for you.

Ray 40:04

I I did. We we put the Movie Star on the lockdown album. Do you remember? That's right, yeah. Yeah, it's a great song.

Geoff 40:10

There you go.

Ray 40:10

It's a great song. So we did do it live a few times, but I should revisit that. We've still got it. It's a terrific song.

Geoff 40:15

There you go.

Ray 40:16

Really poignant lyrics as well,

Geoff 40:17

yeah. Yeah, yeah. Wow, that's been such good fun hanging out.

Ray 40:21

You too, Geoff.

Geoff 40:21

Thank you so much for your time.

Ray 40:23

Cheers, mate. Thank you. I really look forward to I always like talking about saxophone and music. Absolutely. Keep going with the wonderful app because it's incredible. It's going to give me a new lease of life working out some stuff.

Geoff 40:34

That's what you need, yeah. We all need a bit of that, don't we?

Ray 40:37

All 12 keys of uh All the Things You Are, man.

Geoff 40:41

Yeah. Nice. All right. All right. Thanks, Ray.

Ray 40:43

Thanks, Geoff. All the best. I really appreciate it. It's so lovely of you to do this, it's lovely.

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Announcement 40:48

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